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Poll: Were any of these subjects present in your higher education as a translator ?
Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
Barbara Carrara
Barbara Carrara  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 14:12
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Ah, yes, 1987! Apr 20, 2021

Matthias Brombach wrote:

... too much harmony here ...


That's Debby's one-liner from that beautiful little gem, Bagdad Cafe. Right?

[Edited at 2021-04-20 14:42 GMT]


P.L.F. Persio
Matthias Brombach
 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:12
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
... nooooh .... Apr 20, 2021

Barbara Carrara wrote:

Matthias Brombach wrote:

... too much harmony here ...


That's Debby's one-liner from that beautiful little gem, Bagdad Cafe. Right?

[Edited at 2021-04-20 14:42 GMT]

... nonono, nein nein ....


Barbara Carrara
P.L.F. Persio
 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:12
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
@Persio / I think you are missing the point Apr 20, 2021

P.L.F.Persio wrote:

May I step in? Tom doesn't need me to be either his defence lawyer, nor to speak on his behalf, but I wish to articulate my thoughts about the point you made.

In my opinion, once you reach a certain age, and a certain amount of professional experience, there's really no point in false modesty. You are perfectly aware of your own limitations by now, which also implies being aware of what you can actually do.

For what I know about Tom, his command of his native English is second to none, and he masters Italian – his working language – at an exceptionally high level, I'd say he can pass for a native speaker of my language.
His answers on the IT>EN Kudoz section are invariably brilliant, well thought-of, and show someone who knows what is doing and has a wealth of experience in translation.

If someone said they're the best translators in the world, we could well reply Doe maar gewoon! but it's not the case here.


I never said Tom isn't a 'damn good' translator. I am sure he is if he says so. I also reached a certain age, and a certain amount of professional experience, but I am not 'shouting it from the roof top'. Difference in style I guess.

By the way, why doesn't Tom answer my question? It is a bit silly talking about somebody, while the person in question is following the conversation, don't you think so?

Like I ended my last thread: 'No insult meant'.


P.L.F. Persio
Kay Denney
expressisverbis
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
@Robert Apr 20, 2021

I think this might just be a subtle cultural thing. To me, Tom isn’t bragging. He’s just making a very fair point. I’d be the first (or maybe second) to comment if he was 😂

At the end of the day, we all tell our customers we’re good anyway...


P.L.F. Persio
Mervyn Henderson (X)
 
P.L.F. Persio
P.L.F. Persio  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:12
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
Chris, you're the nail to my head Apr 20, 2021

Chris S wrote:

I think this might just be a subtle cultural thing. To me, Tom isn’t bragging. He’s just making a very fair point. I’d be the first (or maybe second) to comment if he was 😂

At the end of the day, we all tell our customers we’re good anyway...


And bragging about not blowing your own trumpets, because your clients blow them for you, just means you're a very lazy musician.

No offence meant, of course, just a lame joke.


Christopher Schröder
Mervyn Henderson (X)
 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:12
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
@Chris Apr 20, 2021

Chris S wrote:

I think this might just be a subtle cultural thing. To me, Tom isn’t bragging. He’s just making a very fair point. I’d be the first (or maybe second) to comment if he was 😂

At the end of the day, we all tell our customers we’re good anyway...


OK, lets keep it on that.


Christopher Schröder
 
TonyTK
TonyTK
German to English
+ ...
Translation degree useful or superfluous? It depends … Apr 21, 2021

As someone who’s studied translation (mainly to get the piece of paper I thought I’d need but no one ever asked to see) and held translation courses for English native speakers at university for 20 years, the one thing I know for sure is that there’s not a yes/no answer to the value of studying translation. As with most things, you often get as much out of it as you’re willing to put in.

What we do as translators has a lot to with confidence in our native language skills and
... See more
As someone who’s studied translation (mainly to get the piece of paper I thought I’d need but no one ever asked to see) and held translation courses for English native speakers at university for 20 years, the one thing I know for sure is that there’s not a yes/no answer to the value of studying translation. As with most things, you often get as much out of it as you’re willing to put in.

What we do as translators has a lot to with confidence in our native language skills and the ability to free ourselves from the constraints of the source text – which we nevertheless need to understand in all its nuance.

I know I can’t teach anyone to translate, but what I can do is (try to) encourage students to have confidence in their writing style. They learn from each other, and I often learn from them. The only thing I ever “teach” them is crushingly banal: if you’re having trouble wording something so that all the working bits are in the right place, just imagine you’re trying to explain it to someone who doesn’t speak the source language, perhaps even by saying it out loud. It’s the classic three-step routine. Read. Understand. Write. The other thing I tell them is to practice their English.

You tend to know during the first couple of weeks of a course with a new intake who’s got the knack, for want of a better word. At the same time, students who initially looked like a lost cause can flourish over time – not because of anything I’ve taught them but because they’ve “found” their writing style in a supportive environment.

Then you get the occasional superstars. 20-something, superb style, can handle anything you throw at them, nothing I can show them; I offer to let them do a couple of classes while I sit with the students. Their work is better than mine, full stop. The only benefit of having 40 years of experience as a translator is that I can sometimes lead them into a trap and take them down a peg or two.

I’ve met, worked with and given work to hundreds of translators over the years. The following two sentences are true.
Some of the best translators I know studied translation and swear that it helped them tremendously.
Some of the best translators I know never set foot in a university.

My main beef with translation degrees is that quite a few people spend four years of their life studying something only to find they’re not very good at it. I also think that the benefits I’ve outlined above could quite handily fit into a six or twelve-month format. Above all, I believe it’s very instructive to spend time working with other translators/students as it helps you to hone your skills and keeps you grounded.

To close on a more sombre note, it’s sad to see the inevitable rise of MTPE, and it’s equally sad to see how stressed out today’s students are. Those of us of a certain age not only experienced the golden years of the translation market but also had the times of our lives as undergraduates, often fully funded by the Great British taxpayer.
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Jorge Payan
P.L.F. Persio
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Christopher Schröder
Rachel Waddington
polyglot45
Michael Wetzel
 
P.L.F. Persio
P.L.F. Persio  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:12
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
Great post, TonyTK. Apr 23, 2021

Great indeed.

Mervyn Henderson (X)
Christopher Schröder
expressisverbis
Zibow Retailleau
 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
Once upon a time Apr 23, 2021

Once upon a time there was a translator, or someone who thought he was a translator, or who thought he was going to be a translator, because he had been taught translation at university by a man who had written the prologue to a book by a very famous Spaniard, a personal friend of the lecturer, and this would-be translator, after he left uni but before he started translating for a living, was working in a sleazy bar in Barcelona full of liberal ladies, pimps, coke-dealers, trannies, wide boys an... See more
Once upon a time there was a translator, or someone who thought he was a translator, or who thought he was going to be a translator, because he had been taught translation at university by a man who had written the prologue to a book by a very famous Spaniard, a personal friend of the lecturer, and this would-be translator, after he left uni but before he started translating for a living, was working in a sleazy bar in Barcelona full of liberal ladies, pimps, coke-dealers, trannies, wide boys and the rest, and his former tutor and professor came to that bar one night because he had come to research a book of his on a famous author, not the very famous Spaniard mentioned above, but another one who was/is just as famous.

The translator spent the evening taking Estrella beers to the tables, cracking the caps off with his opener and throwing the caps across the floor, because that was his party piece and that was the kind of place it was, and even shooed off a nasty big Rasta intent on GBH vis-à-vis his professor, who was drinking Carlos III brandy at the bar, and after all the crapheads and cokeheads had left, he took him back to the sleazy dive on the same street at which he was staying.

When the professor and his former student walked in, the owner was at pains to point out that the gaff had originally been occupied by monks, and that the present-day rooms had actually been used by the monks. Now, if you've got this far, you might as well know that "cell" has two meanings in Spanish, "celda" for a prison or monk cell, and "célula" for cell in the biological sense. Imagine the student's surprise when his professor, tutor and mentor, a man with so many letters and Spanish titles after his name it wasn't true, starts talking to the owner about the monks' biological cells.

Conclusion? It's experience, not titles, that counts.

[Edited at 2021-04-23 13:40 GMT]
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P.L.F. Persio
Robert Rietvelt
Christopher Schröder
expressisverbis
Zibow Retailleau
 
expressisverbis
expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 13:12
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Agree Apr 23, 2021

P.L.F.Persio wrote:

Great indeed.


polyglot45, TonyTK and Mervyn have given a great contribution, in addition to the other good comments which I read here.


Christopher Schröder
P.L.F. Persio
Zibow Retailleau
 
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Poll: Were any of these subjects present in your higher education as a translator ?






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