How should stamps that are placed on top of text and back side of pages appear in the translation?
Thread poster: Meeno
Meeno
Meeno
United Arab Emirates
Mar 4, 2020

Hi,

I'm an end customer, I have a Notarized document that will legally translated to English.

1) The translator that I'm in contact with sent me a draft of the translation to review, however he has only translated and noted the Notary stamps that appear in the beginning and end pages of the source document.

I'm assuming because those stamps in the source document are not placed on top of text or overlapping the text and have white space around it s
... See more
Hi,

I'm an end customer, I have a Notarized document that will legally translated to English.

1) The translator that I'm in contact with sent me a draft of the translation to review, however he has only translated and noted the Notary stamps that appear in the beginning and end pages of the source document.

I'm assuming because those stamps in the source document are not placed on top of text or overlapping the text and have white space around it so it's pretty straightforward to replicate the placement of those stamps in the translation.

However, the Notary stamps that are placed on top of text which are in the middle pages have been left out of the translation, maybe because there is no space to place them in the same manner in the translation without it effecting the legibility of the translated text. Is it acceptable to skip translating those stamps that are overlapping the text on those pages? Those stamps are the same as the one in the first and last page which have been placed in the translation draft.

2) There are pages such as an attached copy of the passport page that has a Notary stamp placed on top of it overlapping the copy. How can that be replicated in the translation? Should a copy of the passport without the stamp of the notary be placed in the translation instead? Or there shouldn't be another passport copy included again in the translation since it's already in English except for the Notary stamp?

I would appreciate any advice I can get.

[Edited at 2020-03-04 15:58 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-04 15:58 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-04 15:59 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-04 17:50 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-04 23:52 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-04 23:54 GMT]
Collapse


 
Joakim Braun
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:20
German to Swedish
+ ...
Anywhere at all Mar 4, 2020

The placement of the text is only useful as a navigation guide to someone comparing the translation with the original (say, an authority). So that's not really critical. If there's no room, put the text somehere else and add an explanation: [Watermark:] or [Overlaid stamp:].

Everything on the page must be translated. If it's not in the sworn source language, it must be left as is. Repeating elements must be translated on every page.

If there's a notary s
... See more
The placement of the text is only useful as a navigation guide to someone comparing the translation with the original (say, an authority). So that's not really critical. If there's no room, put the text somehere else and add an explanation: [Watermark:] or [Overlaid stamp:].

Everything on the page must be translated. If it's not in the sworn source language, it must be left as is. Repeating elements must be translated on every page.

If there's a notary stamp on the passport, there should be one in the translation (positioned wherever possible).
If the passport is entirely in the target language (but that's unlikely, there would probably be some French at least), I'd paste in a scan of the original.

There are always borderline cases. So long as it's perfectly obvious what you're doing and there are no omissions, I think you have a lot of leeway to do whatever is sensible.

(I'm a sworn translator in Sweden.)
Collapse


B D Finch
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Tina Vonhof (X)
 
Meeno
Meeno
United Arab Emirates
TOPIC STARTER
I appreciate your help Mar 4, 2020

Joakim Braun wrote:

The placement of the text is only useful as a navigation guide to someone comparing the translation with the original (say, an authority). So that's not really critical. If there's no room, put the text somehere else and add an explanation: [Watermark:] or [Overlaid stamp:].

Everything on the page must be translated. If it's not in the sworn source language, it must be left as is. Repeating elements must be translated on every page.

If there's a notary stamp on the passport, there should be one in the translation (positioned wherever possible).
If the passport is entirely in the target language (but that's unlikely, there would probably be some French at least), I'd paste in a scan of the original.

There are always borderline cases. So long as it's perfectly obvious what you're doing and there are no omissions, I think you have a lot of leeway to do whatever is sensible.

(I'm a sworn translator in Sweden.)


Thank you for replying, the passport is in the target language so it doesn't need to be translated, however it was included in the source document and stamped by the Notary. So a scan of the original should be included in the translation and then a translation of the stamp should be placed on top of it in the same manner it was placed in the source document?

I also forgot to mention this in my opening post but what if stamps are also placed at the back of the passport copy, the translated document should also place translated stamps behind the passport scan in the same manner it was placed in the source document as well?

I just realized as well that the source document is 2 pages longer than the target document because I'm assuming the words in English are shorter, stamps placed on text in page 6 for example would have to be placed at page 4 of the translation but that doesn't accurately match up with where the stamps were placed at the exact sentence or even page as the source document.

It's impossible to replicate the placement of stamps of the source document to the translation in this case, except for the first and last page where it's straightforward. The first and last page are the most important because they contain the signature and name of the Notary with stamps placed beside it.


[Edited at 2020-03-04 18:29 GMT]


 
Joakim Braun
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:20
German to Swedish
+ ...
... Mar 4, 2020

I'd put the stamp where it's readable, perhaps next to the passport with a bracketed explanation.

If there's something at the back I would treat it like any other double-sided content: Make a separate page for it.

In a multi-page document of continuous text I would try to end the target pages at approximately the same point as the source text and put in manual page breaks. This is obviously more of a problem if it's the target text that's longer.


 
Meeno
Meeno
United Arab Emirates
TOPIC STARTER
That solves my problem, thanks a lot! Mar 4, 2020

Joakim Braun wrote:

I'd put the stamp where it's readable, perhaps next to the passport with a bracketed explanation.

If there's something at the back I would treat it like any other double-sided content: Make a separate page for it.

In a multi-page document of continuous text I would try to end the target pages at approximately the same point as the source text and put in manual page breaks. This is obviously more of a problem if it's the target text that's longer.


That's such a simple solution yet so brilliant! I didn't think of putting in manual page breaks to end the target pages at the same point as the source text, that would also leave space in the bottom where page breaks were made to place the stamps that are overlaid in the source text. I can just put the stamp in the bottom where it's readable as you suggested.

You've been a such a great help, I can't thank you enough!

I just have a final question if you don't mind, would you place stamps in square shapes to distinguish them from [signatures] that are mentioned in between brackets?

Or just make note of both stamps and signatures in the same way, both in between brackets?

[Edited at 2020-03-04 23:31 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-05 09:34 GMT]


 
Meeno
Meeno
United Arab Emirates
TOPIC STARTER
Hard page breaks maybe not the solution Mar 5, 2020

Now that I had to time to think about and look at it, maybe hard page breaks mid-sentence in the target text to match where the source text ends in each page would make the the translated document look incomplete. Leaving a huge gap in a page after a page break mid-sentence doesn't look good.

Something like this in the middle of the translated document would make it look as if parts f
... See more
Now that I had to time to think about and look at it, maybe hard page breaks mid-sentence in the target text to match where the source text ends in each page would make the the translated document look incomplete. Leaving a huge gap in a page after a page break mid-sentence doesn't look good.

Something like this in the middle of the translated document would make it look as if parts from the source document are missing: https://imgur.com/UEiXZzw

Especially in a Power of Attorney, I don't want the reader to think that the translation has anything missing from the main text and risk having it rejected.

It's either I skip the stamps in the middle pages which are comparable to the stamps in the first and last page or I add page breaks in the target text to match with the source document and have space to make note of the repeated stamps, but risk the POA looking incomplete and dispersed in the translation.



[Edited at 2020-03-05 07:13 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-05 07:22 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-05 07:23 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-05 07:27 GMT]
Collapse


 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 05:20
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Answering your last question Mar 5, 2020

Stamps, seals and signatures should be mentioned exactly in the same way, either in between round brackets or in square brackets, all over the translated document. Personally, I always put the text in italic between square brackets. In some documents having a lot of stamps/seals/initials, I have occasionally written at the last page [This document is sealed/stamped/initialled on each page]. Hope this helps...

 
Meeno
Meeno
United Arab Emirates
TOPIC STARTER
That makes sense Mar 5, 2020

Teresa Borges wrote:

Stamps, seals and signatures should be mentioned exactly in the same way, either in between round brackets or in square brackets, all over the translated document. Personally, I always put the text in italic between square brackets. In some documents having a lot of stamps/seals/initials, I have occasionally written at the last page [This document is sealed/stamped/initialled on each page]. Hope this helps...


I think this is more practical but since the the document is printed on both sides, the Notary stamps appear on the front sided pages while the back sided pages are left without stamps. So in this case, the note at the end should instead say [This document is also stamped/initialed by the Notary in previous pages]?

Do I also include a description or contents of the stamp in the note as well since the last page contains both a different stamp and also the stamp that repeatedly appears in previous pages.

The target document is starting to look haphazard with all these notes because there are notes of stamps placed in the same spot as the stamps in the source document and then there will be a note at the last page mentioning stamps that couldn't be noted in previous pages due to lack of space.



[Edited at 2020-03-05 11:22 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-03-05 11:23 GMT]


 
Tina Vonhof (X)
Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 23:20
Dutch to English
+ ...
A few comments Mar 5, 2020

Meeno wrote:

Thank you for replying, the passport is in the target language so it doesn't need to be translated, however it was included in the source document and stamped by the Notary. So a scan of the original should be included in the translation and then a translation of the stamp should be placed on top of it in the same manner it was placed in the source document?

I also forgot to mention this in my opening post but what if stamps are also placed at the back of the passport copy, the translated document should also place translated stamps behind the passport scan in the same manner it was placed in the source document as well?

I just realized as well that the source document is 2 pages longer than the target document because I'm assuming the words in English are shorter, stamps placed on text in page 6 for example would have to be placed at page 4 of the translation but that doesn't accurately match up with where the stamps were placed at the exact sentence or even page as the source document.

It's impossible to replicate the placement of stamps of the source document to the translation in this case, except for the first and last page where it's straightforward. The first and last page are the most important because they contain the signature and name of the Notary with stamps placed beside it.


[Edited at 2020-03-04 18:29 GMT]


1) I' don't quite understand your first paragraph. If you attach a scan of the document in the target language and it is stamped by the notary, that stamp should be visible on the scan. There should be no need to translate anything in that document.

2) If there are stamps or anything else on the back of the page, you add an extra page and clearly mark it at the top as 'Back of page 2'. You will then end up with more pages in the translation but that's ok.

3) In official documents, every translated page should look exactly like, and have the same page number, as the source page to make comparison possible. If English has fewer words, so much the better, then you have space for the stamps or you leave it blank at the bottom. If things do not fit on the page, choose a smaller font or change the margins to make them fit. These kinds of documents are a lot of work, so they should be charged/paid per hour, not per word.



[Edited at 2020-03-05 20:29 GMT]


 
Joakim Braun
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:20
German to Swedish
+ ...
Just a bracketed explanation Mar 6, 2020

Meeno wrote:

...would you place stamps in square shapes to distinguish them from [signatures] that are mentioned in between brackets?

Or just make note of both stamps and signatures in the same way, both in between brackets?


I'd put it like this:

Blah blah blah

[Stamp:]
Yakkety yak


Meeno
 
Meeno
Meeno
United Arab Emirates
TOPIC STARTER
Conflicted with another issue Mar 7, 2020

Tina Vonhof wrote:

1) I' don't quite understand your first paragraph. If you attach a scan of the document in the target language and it is stamped by the notary, that stamp should be visible on the scan. There should be no need to translate anything in that document.

2) If there are stamps or anything else on the back of the page, you add an extra page and clearly mark it at the top as 'Back of page 2'. You will then end up with more pages in the translation but that's ok.

3) In official documents, every translated page should look exactly like, and have the same page number, as the source page to make comparison possible. If English has fewer words, so much the better, then you have space for the stamps or you leave it blank at the bottom. If things do not fit on the page, choose a smaller font or change the margins to make them fit. These kinds of documents are a lot of work, so they should be charged/paid per hour, not per word.



[Edited at 2020-03-05 20:29 GMT]


Thank you for the advice, I have another problem that I've encountered as well. There is an official holographic label placed on the source document, there is text that's discernible on the label at first glance, but then there is fine print that can only be read with a magnifying glass. The only reason why I was able to realize that there was fine print was after I zoomed in 200% on a scan of the document. I don't think a human eye would notice it when reading the source document in actual size.

Besides translating the clear text on the holographic label, should the very fine print on the label be translated as well if it cannot be read in actual size?


Kaspars Melkis
 
Kaspars Melkis
Kaspars Melkis  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:20
English to Latvian
+ ...
not everything needs to be translated Mar 8, 2020

Besides translating the clear text on the holographic label, should the very fine print on the label be translated as well if it cannot be read in actual size?


Recently I had to translate legalized documents and I didn't translate the text on the holograph.

My reasoning was that this part doesn't have any linguistic value. The security feature applies only to the original document and its autheticity is confirmed by the legalization stamp and signature. There is no information that would be useful to the target reader.

The submitted document was scrutinized by the authorities very carefully and they accepted it. They only requested me to translate the name of the person in this document. Which I did in the updated version despite protests of that person who insisted that her name can only appear as written in the passport. The Latvian tradition and also the law is to translate persons' names. To outsiders it seems incomprehensible and unacceptable, even the violation of person's rights. Explaining to the client why this makes sense in Latvian was a bigger challenge than the translation itself.


 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

How should stamps that are placed on top of text and back side of pages appear in the translation?







Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »
Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »