translation memory for arabic language Thread poster: shauoki salama
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hi guys, reviewing every day's job posting of proz.com i found that most customers ask the bidders about the translation memory they use. i think this is not applicable to arabic language. it is a little complicated except as far as terminology translation is concerned. can you advise me.
| | | | Stephen Franke
United States
Local time: 14:16
English to Arabic
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| Re Arabic TM: Khaleee walliih | Jan 6, 2005 |
Greetings.
Re Arabic-enabled TM (such as seems to exist) and its utility to your business model and your ROI (return on investment).
Jawaabii maa yellii: bainanii wa bainakum, khaleee walliih.. zebaalat.
Hope this helps.
Khair, in sha' Allah.
Regards,
Stephen H. Franke
San Pedro, California
| | | | | Sorry to be late in answering... | Jan 13, 2005 |
I've made it a point for the last three years or so to look closely at using TM and Arabic periodically. Specifically with Arabic as a source text, because when English is the source text is becomes the same as it is for any target language when English is the source - as long as the application can handle Arabic text input and bidi formatting, all else should be fine and just as useful as it is for any other language combination.
However, with Arabic as a source text there is much ... See more I've made it a point for the last three years or so to look closely at using TM and Arabic periodically. Specifically with Arabic as a source text, because when English is the source text is becomes the same as it is for any target language when English is the source - as long as the application can handle Arabic text input and bidi formatting, all else should be fine and just as useful as it is for any other language combination.
However, with Arabic as a source text there is much more finesse required of the application. It needs to know a lot about the subtleties of Arabic texts and grammar. Properly segmenting Arabic text is the first concern, but even properly displaying Arabic on screen is something most of them do not do properly. My most recent check of Trados and Déjà vu X last month showed that neither application is bug free, having the same problems that I saw when I researched this issue for a short article in Multilingual Computing a couple of years ago (on my website if you are interested). Déjà vu could not import an Arabic document created in Word 2003. At first I copied text from a web page, when that didn’t work I typed up a text, five pages from a book. It still did not work. It would import the file when I converted it to RTF, but segmentation was still way off. Trados still had some display issues, reversing text direction, mixing up text around punctuation marks, and so on.
Based on currently available technology I would say TM is not worth using for Arabic into English translation. The one app I want to re-test to see if I change my mind from a technology standpoint is Transit XV. They were very responsive to the issues I found in my last test and I am pretty sure they have fixed them by now. Hopefully I’ll get time to test it soon.
Even more importantly, I do not receive much Arabic into English work where I receive Arabic as soft text (Word or some other electronic format). Most Arabic into English translators I have spoken to have told me the same thing. Most of the work I get comes via fax or email as PDF (images, not text-bearing PDF documents). In order to use TM I would have to get it into soft text - OCR or typing by hand. Arabic OCR is, in my admittedly limited experience, hopeless. It introduces a lot of error into the text which would make segment matches impossible. Correcting these errors would take a lot of time. Typing the text in by hand takes far too much time. Either method removes all possibility of profit from the process (receipt of text, typing the source text, translation, formatting, delivery) for a translator working alone as most of us do.
Having said that, if a client required that I use TM and the source text was something that was something that would be suitable to TM – they have a memory from a similar text they are providing, or plan to do several revisions of the same text - I would make sure I had the right tool for the job as long as that job was profitable enough to make the expense worthwhile. But at this point, it isn’t worth the cost or the learning curve.
I hope I haven't gotten too far off topic. I think translation agencies should research this issue before they ask an Arabic translator if they have TM.
--tag ▲ Collapse
| | | | Natalia Elo 
Germany
Local time: 23:16
English to Russian
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Stephen Franke
United States
Local time: 14:16
English to Arabic
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| Agree with Tim Gregory | Jan 21, 2005 |
Greetings.
May I agree with and second Tim Gregory's good comments re the "un-utility" of TM in working with Arabic. He is right on target about incompatibilities of TM with RTL languages
The "industry-common" TM software seem wobbly and unreliable in detecting, supporting, conveying and working with Arabic and similar right-to-left (RTL) cursive alphabets. AppTek's TranSphere is somewhat usable with its MT feature, but that has some glitches (as of late last year) tha... See more Greetings.
May I agree with and second Tim Gregory's good comments re the "un-utility" of TM in working with Arabic. He is right on target about incompatibilities of TM with RTL languages
The "industry-common" TM software seem wobbly and unreliable in detecting, supporting, conveying and working with Arabic and similar right-to-left (RTL) cursive alphabets. AppTek's TranSphere is somewhat usable with its MT feature, but that has some glitches (as of late last year) that are being worked and solved, in sha' Allah.
While I work mostly Arabic English, I occasionally get queries or projects for Kurdish support (most recently, about an engineering manual for a piece of electrical equipment) that involve word-processing / quasi-DTP work into the RTL cursive "Arabized" (more accurately "Farsi-ized") alphabet used in Kurdish.
According to an esteemed and well-equipped Kurdish colleague (a biomedical engineer at a biotech lab in Los Angeles) who tried that manual and some earlier into-Kurdish productions, MT is useless for RTL Kurdish, even with enabled Farsi RTL support which can detect and recognize related and distinctive Kurdish characters.
And then there is an additional technical consideration: the PC at the final destination/receiving end must have compatible MT set-up with identical settings. PDF emerges as the most-convenient work-around in most cases.
HTH.
Regards,
Stephen H. Franke
San Pedro, California ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sami Khamou
Local time: 17:16
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
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| Trados 6.5 is the best for English/Arabic translation | Jan 27, 2005 |
Dear Colleague,
I have been using Trados to help with my English/Arabic translation for about two years. I use it for English/Arabic translation. There hasn't been any demand for using the program with Arabic/English translation. It is a fantastic program. In addition to the capability to save the memory, it can be very useful for organizing your translation by segmenting the text. It can also provide vocabulary suggestions on different vocabulary and sentence level. The program has... See more Dear Colleague,
I have been using Trados to help with my English/Arabic translation for about two years. I use it for English/Arabic translation. There hasn't been any demand for using the program with Arabic/English translation. It is a fantastic program. In addition to the capability to save the memory, it can be very useful for organizing your translation by segmenting the text. It can also provide vocabulary suggestions on different vocabulary and sentence level. The program has been flawless with its improved 6.5 version. Now, that I am used to the program, I don't know how I can work without it.
Kind regards,
Sami ▲ Collapse
| | | | | For English into Arabic, most are good | Mar 4, 2005 |
I completely agree with you when you are going from English into Arabic.
English is one of the main languages these applications are designed to handle, so if you are working with English as your source language, the application will work well as long as it can properly display Arabic text in your translation. Trados, Wordfast, Transit and Deja Vu X all work well for English into Arabic. At that point it is a matter of work-style preference.
The problems arise when you ... See more I completely agree with you when you are going from English into Arabic.
English is one of the main languages these applications are designed to handle, so if you are working with English as your source language, the application will work well as long as it can properly display Arabic text in your translation. Trados, Wordfast, Transit and Deja Vu X all work well for English into Arabic. At that point it is a matter of work-style preference.
The problems arise when you want to work from Arabic as the source text. You start having display issues when the text is mixed Arabic and English, or when punctuation is used - properly or improperly. Text segmentation is completely different between latin-based languages and Arabic, and most of the applications I have tested do not segment the text appropriately for translaiton from Arabic into English.
I'm looking forward to the time when they will, but that time is not now. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alaa Zeineldine
Egypt
Local time: 00:16
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
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| Second Sami .. to a point | Mar 4, 2005 |
I agree with Sami about the utility of using Trados for English>Arabic. I have grown several TM's in specialized fields such as MSDS labels and mechanical terms. With MSDS's, repetition is frequent, so segment reuse is always a pleasant experience. With other technical areas, the concordance function is invaluable in terminology searches, even when you have a termbase.
I will certainly try to get info from Sami as to how he was able to configure Trados 6.5 and Word to reach the leve... See more I agree with Sami about the utility of using Trados for English>Arabic. I have grown several TM's in specialized fields such as MSDS labels and mechanical terms. With MSDS's, repetition is frequent, so segment reuse is always a pleasant experience. With other technical areas, the concordance function is invaluable in terminology searches, even when you have a termbase.
I will certainly try to get info from Sami as to how he was able to configure Trados 6.5 and Word to reach the level of flawlessness. I also heard rave reviews from Sameh Al-Sharkawi. However, I frequently have to troubleshoot problems such as font replacement, dissapearance of text at the end of a table column, and the loss of the first one or two characters in the occasional paragraph. Some of these problems are not specific to Arabic. However, the benefit is still worth the cost in some subject areas.
Alaa ▲ Collapse
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| DB E>A in trados | Mar 11, 2005 |
I want to know if there is a database in the software of trados for English to Arabic ?
I need a help in trados for Arabic language only
I went to the site of trados I find last update abbout Arabic in 2003 !!!!!!!
please how can I know about trados for Arabic
| | | | Alaa Zeineldine
Egypt
Local time: 00:16
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
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| Re: DB E>A in trados | Mar 12, 2005 |
aziz_alonzi wrote:
I want to know if there is a database in the software of trados for English to Arabic ?
You would be better off posting this as a new topic so your request does not get lost in the original discussion.
Alaa
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