| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Looking for a career change and feeling "passionate" about languages and translation? Thread poster: Philippe Etienne
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Robert Forstag 
United States
Local time: 11:28
Spanish to English
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| Dreams of glory and bridges to nowhere | Nov 3, 2022 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
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I think Steve Jobs is partly to blame, as he was one of the chief proselytisers of passion. Yes, he himself certainly was passionate and took risks as a student, but by the time he was 25 he was an extremely wealthy man. It's easy to lecture others about passion when you have a $120 million (1980 dollars!) safety net to fall into if things don't go well. For every Steve Jobs figure, how many hundreds of thousands of others blight their own lives chasing fantasies?
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Excellent point here about the malign influence of Steve Jobs – and especially of his 2005 Stanford commencement address in which he essentially urges the assembled graduates to “follow their passions” – as he had done when he was their age.
This address, which seems to have been translated into most of the world’s major languages, has achieved iconic status in many quarters – mainly among those whose mantra is "follow your dream.”
Steve Jobs dropped out of college after just one semester. We all know what happened next.
So following his dream worked particularly well for Steve Jobs. For most others, it can prove to be a regrettable waste of time – if not utterly disastrous.
Far better advice would be – as Dan suggests – to select a career tailored to one’s particular skill set that promises to pay reasonably well (and that, in our cybernetic and high-tech age, is not doomed to extinction in the short term).
It can at least be said that the damage done to the Stanford grads was minimal. After all, they already had their university degrees in hand. But who knows how many high school graduates – or dropouts – were moved by reading or viewing the speech – and by Jobs’ own inspiring story – to embark upon a life journey that ended up being a bridge to nowhere?
[Edited at 2022-11-04 23:16 GMT]
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:28
Serbian to English
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| No need to imagine ... | Nov 3, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
Are there really translators who feel passionate about their work? I find that so hard to imagine.
I do know of at least one.
| | | | James Plastow
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:28
Member (2020)
Japanese to English
| different "personalities" in languages? | Nov 3, 2022 |
Kaspars Melkis wrote: James Plastow wrote:
"All languages and language variants are functionally equivalent" misses the beauty and diversity of individual languages. You might as well say "All humans are functionally equivalent"!! Language is a collective phenomenon, not an individual one. Surely, some people, native speakers or not, have worse language skills than others but collectively all languages are functionally equal, probably in the same way as humans of all nationalities or races are functionally equal. That's what linguistic studies have taught me anyway. Beauty is a subjective judgement. If it seems that some languages are inadequate in expressing certain scientific or artistic ideas, then it is only because we haven't sufficiently tried to translate these ideas into the given language.
It's a bit hard for me to explain, but I feel that different languages have different "personalities". I know that Japanese is a whole other world compared to English and I myself am a different person when I communicate in Japanese versus English. The "feel" is totally different even if the meaning of the sentence is the same. Perhaps it's like different musical instruments playing the same notes?
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:28
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Completely agree | Nov 3, 2022 |
James Plastow wrote:
It's a bit hard for me to explain, but I feel that different languages have different "personalities".
I have noticed the same. If you want to be able to speak like a native speaker, that involves moulding your behaviour to fit the language to a certain extent. Perhaps this is most noticeable in cases where the underlying cultures are very different.
One of the reasons I didn't pursue French beyond A-level (apart from the obvious issue of it being so popular) was that it didn't seem to be different enough for a foreign language. At the end of the day, France is only 30 miles away. How different can it be?
The answer is of course that it seems very different unless you've actually lived and worked outside Europe in a non-European language. From that more isolated perspective, you start to realise just how much the cultural underpinnings of European countries have in common.
Regards,
Dan
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| I am passionate | Nov 4, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
Are there really translators who feel passionate about their work? I find that so hard to imagine.
Your doubt is very strange from my point of view, this job is very demanding, if you are not passionate, you can't do it. My opinion.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 17:28
French to English
Angie Garbarino wrote: Gerard Barry wrote:
Are there really translators who feel passionate about their work? I find that so hard to imagine. Your doubt is very strange from my point of view, this job is very demanding, if you are not passionate, you can't do it. My opinion.
I agree entirely. The passion shines through, and that's what makes a great translation stand out from run-of-the-mill copy. When you get clients ringing up to tell you that they just loooooove your little pun and they're going to change the original because it works in the source language too, you know you've done a great job, and everyone's really happy.
Of course, this applies in the fields I work in (the arts, history, music, travel etc.). I expect if you work in more "serious" fields like finance and sewage engineering, there's not as much opportunity to have fun and be creative. But then again, there are people who are passionate about sewage engineering (to wit, the sewers in Paris are open to visitors!! - as if there were nothing else of interest here!!!!).
When a man is tired of London he is tired of life, you could replace "London" with work and it works just as well.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 17:28
French to English
[quote]James Plastow wrote:
Kaspars Melkis wrote:
It's a bit hard for me to explain, but I feel that different languages have different "personalities". I know that Japanese is a whole other world compared to English and I myself am a different person when I communicate in Japanese versus English. The "feel" is totally different even if the meaning of the sentence is the same. Perhaps it's like different musical instruments playing the same notes?
I do believe there was research that bore this out, and I probably read about it here.
I know that I use my hands more when speaking in French, and my parents thought I had a truly tempestuous relationship with my partner, because we speak in French together and the most mundane of conversations sounded very dramatic to them.
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Angie Garbarino wrote: Gerard Barry wrote:
Are there really translators who feel passionate about their work? I find that so hard to imagine. Your doubt is very strange from my point of view, this job is very demanding, if you are not passionate, you can't do it. My opinion.
I don't agree with this. I don't think you need to be passionate about your work to do it well.
I'm not passionate about translation. I like the freedom that self-employment brings and I work hard to be good at what I do. I feel a certain satisfaction when I know I've come up with a clever solution to a tricky linguistic problem. But passionate? No. Is anyone passionate about something they've been doing for 20+ years?
I think the idea of finding a job you love is overrated and causes false expectations. It's not the reality for most people. If you are reasonably happy in your job most of the time you are doing pretty well.
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Sadek_A wrote: Rachel Waddington wrote:
I didn't read that as a judgemental comment against translators with specialist degrees. Translators do often produce output that is a clear improvement on the original. It takes a mix of subject matter expertise and writing skills to do this.
My field is engineering (which I have a degree in, as it happens). I can confirm that engineers are not always brilliant writers. I know it's a sore spot for you [& the rest of outsiders] because you don't have a language degree; still, I have the right to echo the rule established in almost every white-collar profession: get the relevant degree, then join!
It's not a sore spot for me, I don't know why you would think that. My opinion is that there are lots of possible paths to becoming a great translator. Some kind of background in your specialism is very helpful though.
Also, I actually do have a language degree.
Also, I think that talking about people as 'outsiders' is not very nice.
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
| Sadek_A
Local time: 19:28
English to Arabic
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| Counter-Offensive? Hardly ever works on me! | Nov 5, 2022 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
Also, I think that talking about people as 'outsiders' is not very nice.
Let me just start off by saying you don't have/need to quote your old quote in your reply to me, you can just quote my statement to which you are replying.
The reason behind that is not taking too much space on the topic pages!
Secondly, let's dissect this "talking about people as 'outsiders' is not very nice":
Who/What then are to be called outsiders? Aliens? Animals? Objects?
Let's seek the opinion of a neutral party:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/outsider
- a PERSON who is not involved with a particular group of people or organization or who does not live in a particular place
- SOMEONE who is paid by a company or organization to do a particular job, but who is not a permanent employee
Hence, "people" can comfortably and NICELY be called "outsiders". It's no insult!
However, what indeed is an insult is constantly calling opponents on this forum "Luddites" 😉. That is not nice at all.
Rachel Waddington wrote:
Also, I actually do have a language degree.
I have one in Psychology! It helps me evade traps!
The counter-offensive failed, and -more importantly- didn't distract me from repeating the established rule: get the relevant degree, then -and only then- can you join!
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:28
English to Latvian
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| do not call other translators outsiders | Nov 7, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote: Rachel Waddington wrote:
Also, I think that talking about people as 'outsiders' is not very nice. Let me just start off by saying you don't have/need to quote your old quote in your reply to me, you can just quote my statement to which you are replying. The reason behind that is not taking too much space on the topic pages! Secondly, let's dissect this "talking about people as 'outsiders' is not very nice": Who/What then are to be called outsiders? Aliens? Animals? Objects? Let's seek the opinion of a neutral party: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/outsider - a PERSON who is not involved with a particular group of people or organization or who does not live in a particular place - SOMEONE who is paid by a company or organization to do a particular job, but who is not a permanent employee Hence, "people" can comfortably and NICELY be called "outsiders". It's no insult! However, what indeed is an insult is constantly calling opponents on this forum "Luddites" 😉. That is not nice at all. Rachel Waddington wrote:
Also, I actually do have a language degree. I have one in Psychology! It helps me evade traps! The counter-offensive failed, and -more importantly- didn't distract me from repeating the established rule: get the relevant degree, then -and only then- can you join!
Translation is not a regulated profession in most countries and the degree is not required to become a translator. Even ISO 17100 standard which is not mandatory and is only a voluntary standard for translation agencies provides 3 ways how one can be considered a qualified translator: 1) by getting a degree in translation, 2) getting a degree in a specialization and having 2 years of experience in translation, 3) by having 5 years of experience in translation (no degree of any kind is necessary at all).
Therefore you cannot call other translators without translator degree on this site outsiders. That is not acceptable.
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Sadek_A
Local time: 19:28
English to Arabic
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Kaspars Melkis wrote:
Translation is not a regulated profession in most countries and the degree is not required to become a translator. Even ISO 17100 standard which is not mandatory and is only a voluntary standard for translation agencies provides 3 ways how one can be considered a qualified translator: 1) by getting a degree in translation, 2) getting a degree in a specialization and having 2 years of experience in translation, 3) by having 5 years of experience in translation (no degree of any kind is necessary at all).
Therefore you cannot call other translators without translator degree on this site outsiders. That is not acceptable.
I've earned the [4-year university degree] right to call them outsiders. If you don't like it, don't read it.
Outsiders are the first and foremost reason this profession is failing.
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
| A whole nother can of worms | Nov 7, 2022 |
Kaspars Melkis wrote:
Translation is not a regulated profession in most countries and the degree is not required to become a translator. Even ISO 17100 standard which is not mandatory and is only a voluntary standard for translation agencies provides 3 ways how one can be considered a qualified translator: 1) by getting a degree in translation, 2) getting a degree in a specialization and having 2 years of experience in translation, 3) by having 5 years of experience in translation (no degree of any kind is necessary at all).
This begs a question: if a translation degree is so virtually useless, then why would anyone major in it? Even when people are determined to be language professionals before entering higher education, they are better off getting a degree in, e.g., engineering or computer science. They can market themselves as translators specializing in a particular niche. And if they failed to have a career in this field, they could just fall back on robotics or tech industry. Thus, disincentivizing any interests in translation studies. While you might argue that translation degree holders can get a head start, in practice this is hardly a leverage for them. Besides, ISO-certified agencies are bad news anyway.
Just a thought.
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Kay Denney wrote:
I expect if you work in more "serious" fields like finance and sewage engineering, there's not as much opportunity to have fun and be creative. But then again, there are people who are passionate about sewage engineering (to wit, the sewers in Paris are open to visitors!! - as if there were nothing else of interest here!!!!).
When a man is tired of London he is tired of life, you could replace "London" with work and it works just as well.
I manly do legal translations, believe it or not I really love those obsolete words I have to use and the legalese, it can be surprising I know, but I have fun.
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