| Páginas no tópico: [1 2] > | Scammers and non-payers Tópico cartaz: Linda Larsson (X)
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Linda Larsson (X) 
Suécia
Local time: 07:40
sueco para inglês
If I understand correctly, we are not permitted to give names of clients/companies on these forums. Are we permitted to give links to various blacklists and/or forums in order to warn our fellow translators.
Another 'if I understand correctly' using the blue board is not reliable as the client/company can reply with an outright lie and there's nothing to be done about it.
Where do we go and what do we do? How can ProZ help? If this has been taken up on these boards in t... See more If I understand correctly, we are not permitted to give names of clients/companies on these forums. Are we permitted to give links to various blacklists and/or forums in order to warn our fellow translators.
Another 'if I understand correctly' using the blue board is not reliable as the client/company can reply with an outright lie and there's nothing to be done about it.
Where do we go and what do we do? How can ProZ help? If this has been taken up on these boards in the past, can someone please link me.
Thanks and Happy Translating! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Leave a Blueboard entry anyway | Mar 2, 2014 |
If the company tries to reply with a lie, you can submit a support request to ProZ team.
| | | | Tony M
França
Local time: 07:40
Membro
francês para inglês
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Things you can do... | Mar 2, 2014 |
Linda Lindstrom wrote:
If I understand correctly, we are not permitted to give names of clients/companies on these forums.
No, but you can always give the names, e-mail addresses, etc. with the central part ****ed out — that way, at least people who have received the same scams will be able to see if it might be the same; of course it's no help to anyone trying to do a search on a dodgy name / e-mail; however, since these people use different names and e-mails all the time, it's a better bet anyway to search on a key section in the wording of their e-mail, especially if they use quirky language at any point.
ProZ.com is quite good about publishing names etc. once a scam has been researched and confirmed.
Another 'if I understand correctly' using the Blue Board is not reliable as the client/company can reply with an outright lie and there's nothing to be done about it.
The Blue Board is still a reliable resource, as what counts is the score given; it's a shame that some people go back and edit their score upwards once an issue is resolved, which to some extent conceals a company's past poor record. One company once tried to blackmail me into increasing my score, by offering me more work; I said I would only increase my score by one point with each job they gave me that passed off OK; needless to say they never gave me any work, and my score stayed at 1 (if the option had been available, it would have been –5!)
You need to use the Blue Board with intelligence, and that helps put any 'lies' in replies by companies into perspective.
For example, if a company has many low ratings, it clearly can't be an isolated instance.
Furthermore, if I see a translator has given a low rating, and the company has replied that the translator was unsatisfactory, then I check out if that translator has given other low scores, and if there have been any other adverse comments; quite often, one sees a pattern emerging, suggesting that maybe the translator was no good after all... So it cuts both ways
[Modifié le 2014-03-02 11:59 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
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Alex Kalani
Estados Unidos
Local time: 01:40
árabe para inglês
+ ...
| Three times I have been scamed and did not get paid. | Mar 2, 2014 |
If the companies are proz members.. proz should do something about it. it happened to me three times and I am keeping track of these companies. One in particular is in INDIA.
And this happens because some of us are allowing it. We should all create terms for them to sign before we do the work.
[Edited at 2014-03-02 13:41 GMT]
| | | | Linda Larsson (X)
Suécia
Local time: 07:40
sueco para inglês
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO
For all your answers. I'm taking notes. I'm also receiving tips by e-mail.
Alex: the company I'm speaking of is also in India.
I've certainly learned a very expensive lesson. Investigate the company that makes an offer. I should have and I will in the future. But this is no excuse for this company to be allowed to stay on ProZ, with the feedback they have received there is proof that they are taking advantage, scamming and getting away with it. WHY is nothing being do... See more For all your answers. I'm taking notes. I'm also receiving tips by e-mail.
Alex: the company I'm speaking of is also in India.
I've certainly learned a very expensive lesson. Investigate the company that makes an offer. I should have and I will in the future. But this is no excuse for this company to be allowed to stay on ProZ, with the feedback they have received there is proof that they are taking advantage, scamming and getting away with it. WHY is nothing being done?
I'm still waiting to hear back from support. I have also been receiving links to blacklists to enter this company on, by name! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jennifer White
Reino Unido
Local time: 06:40
francês para inglês
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| I fell foul of this system | Mar 2, 2014 |
"Another 'if I understand correctly' using the Blue Board is not reliable as the client/company can reply with an outright lie and there's nothing to be done about it".
Too true. A few years ago I did a small translation for a "company" and was never paid. This man, it transpired, had no office and corresponded mainly by text message. However, I did the job and then was sent a general email saying that this man was broke and couldn't pay anyone anything. I put a warning on th... See more "Another 'if I understand correctly' using the Blue Board is not reliable as the client/company can reply with an outright lie and there's nothing to be done about it".
Too true. A few years ago I did a small translation for a "company" and was never paid. This man, it transpired, had no office and corresponded mainly by text message. However, I did the job and then was sent a general email saying that this man was broke and couldn't pay anyone anything. I put a warning on the blueboard; a very nasty reply appeared accusing me of being slow (I delivered on time) and having no working fax (of course I did - he was relying on a friend's machine, which didn't work). I asked him to remove his remarks as they were blatantly untue; he replied that if I pursued this he would post an even worse comment. I then asked the site staff to remove his post but they said I had to provide emails disproving his comments. I had only one email thanking me for the work and forwarded that, but still the post was not removed and remains there to this day. I will never risk posting on the blueboard again.
Another translator fell victim to this man subsequently, but he didn't reply to her post. His profile remains on Proz but he has long since stopped pretending to be a translation company and I think is now selling hotdogs from a mobile van................. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tony M
França
Local time: 07:40
Membro
francês para inglês
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | If you have proof, report it. | Mar 2, 2014 |
Alex Kalani wrote:
If the companies are proz members.. proz should do something about it. it happened to me three times
Alex, it's very important to distinguish between real 'scammers', and genuine translation companies that simply appear to be acting in a dishonest way.
If you have proof certain that a company is literally a scammer, then you should report it to ProZ.com support, and if the case is proven, they will very quickly deal with the offending member.
The problem comes when the culprit appears to be a perfectly legitimate translation agency, but for some reason appears to be a bad payer; in such cases, ProZ.com clearly needs to be a lot more careful; and put yourself in the place of the company: they could so easily find themselves victims of malicious reporting by a vindictive translator — there are incompetent people out there, and sometimes translation agencies get their fingers burned too; in my experience, it is quite often the incompetent translators who don't get paid because of the poor quality of their work who are the most vociferous about not getting paid; one might feel they'd do better to keep quiet!
But give them their due, ProZ.com do always investigate cases as thoroughly as it is possible to do, and take action where this is possible.
I don't think we should blame ProZ.com for our own vulnerability; to be scammed once is most unfortunate; to be a victim to it THREE times strongly suggests you are not taking those elementary precautions that have been explained at great length here.
And this happens because some of us are allowing it. We should all create terms for them to sign before we do the work.
Indeed! But even before we get to "signing terms", a real scammer ought to be unmasked at first contact, when you discuss payment arrangements.
If it is a genuine company, getting them to sign terms is unlikely really to be terribly productive. For a start, it's hardly something you could get enforced — especially if you are not in the same country.
Also, a dishonest company will cheerfully sign them anyway, knowing full well that they have no intention of respecting them later. So unless they are enforceable, they are not worth the paper they are written on.
Our only real protection is to be more vigilant about whom we deal with; and read THEIR terms and conditions carefully, too! Time and again, we see on Blue Board companies saying that translators ought to have read their purchase order more carefully, where their specific terms were set out. It would seem that both parties are often at fault, for not having spelt out clearly enough certainly important aspects of their respective terms.
Then again, we find translators complaining bitterly because a payment is two weeks late; I'm sorry, that is nothing unusual in business, and with rare exceptions, I never chase an unpaid invoice until it is over a month late — and I have to say, I don't get many of those, as I am very picky and choosey about the companies I work for. I think it is unreasonable to give a company an LWA rating of '1' for an invoice that is only slightly overdue.
[Modifié le 2014-03-02 14:09 GMT]
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Linda Larsson (X)
Suécia
Local time: 07:40
sueco para inglês
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO | As I suspected... | May 4, 2014 |
I made an entry on the blue board. The agency/person has now been banned. BUT, she left a reply that is an out and out lie, just as I suspected would happen. I have been trying to get a response from support for days now and nothing. I have all the proof that she is lying. I want her reply OFF of my entry. NOW!
Question, if I reply to one support person, do the others in support see my message or am I waiting for one person to answer me?
Even as I am satisfied that she... See more I made an entry on the blue board. The agency/person has now been banned. BUT, she left a reply that is an out and out lie, just as I suspected would happen. I have been trying to get a response from support for days now and nothing. I have all the proof that she is lying. I want her reply OFF of my entry. NOW!
Question, if I reply to one support person, do the others in support see my message or am I waiting for one person to answer me?
Even as I am satisfied that she is now banned, this is exactly why I didn't write an entry for so long. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Natalie
Polônia
Local time: 07:40
Membro (2002)
inglês para russo
+ ...
MODERADOR SITE LOCALIZER
Entry removed - along with your own (no other possibility, technically). Please submit a support request and provide the site staff all necessary information. The outsourcer will be asked to do the same.
Natalia
| | | | Linda Larsson (X)
Suécia
Local time: 07:40
sueco para inglês
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO
That is not how I understood it. I understood that if she replied with a lie, that I could prove she was lying, not that my entry would be removed.
I have, as I wrote, been trying to get a response from support. My question was if I replied to one support person, if I have to wait until that person answered me or if others also see my reply. I have an open support request.
| | | | Natalie
Polônia
Local time: 07:40
Membro (2002)
inglês para russo
+ ...
MODERADOR SITE LOCALIZER | Sorry, Linda, but | May 4, 2014 |
there after the outsourcer's response has been approved the only possibility to remove it is to remove the whole entry.
In the meantime, while you are awaiting the response from the site staff, please feel free to repost your previous entry.
HTH,
Natalia
[Edited at 2014-05-04 17:47 GMT]
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jotranslator
Israel
Local time: 08:40
russo para inglês
+ ...
| A lot of bad companies out there... that are not "scammers" | May 17, 2014 |
Linda Lindstrom wrote:
For all your answers. I'm taking notes. I'm also receiving tips by e-mail.
Alex: the company I'm speaking of is also in India.
As others have pointed out there is a difference between scammers and genuine outsourcers who are bad payers or have poor working practices. I think the latter category are also a big issue, as sometimes it is harder to spot them.
I have had a couple of bad experiences with companies from India. The first didn't bother to pay - luckily (!) it was a relatively small job.
The second bad company sent a job request on a different site (not ProZ) for Hebrew - English translation; I replied to ask for more information about the job and they sent me the file. 30 pages of a very poorly scanned legal document where a lot of the words were blurred, cut off, or hard to read because of the poor scan. They wanted me to tell them how many words it was and send them a quote. I estimated the average words on a page by counting them and multiplied it by my rate, also explaining that the document is hard to read and that I could not turn it around in a single day. The company insisted I had over calculated and that there were half the number of words and gave me a quote of under half what I had quoted. Obviously I said I was not interested in the job; they bombarded me with mails insisting I do it.
Both these companies are not scammers -- but they are still terrible to work for and either do not pay or do not treat translators as professionals. I guess you have to learn to recognize the red flags at the negotiating stage.
| | | | Linda Larsson (X)
Suécia
Local time: 07:40
sueco para inglês
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO
that there is a difference, as used here. Though I think someone that has ripped me off knowingly...gone into an agreement with the intention of never paying and lying about it month after month...is also a scammer.
Just an update, my entry was reinstated WITHOUT the reply from the agency/person. I had all the proof I needed and she hasn't been able to prove otherwise. I continue trying to get what I honestly earned.
I have learned an expensive lesson and I am now supe... See more that there is a difference, as used here. Though I think someone that has ripped me off knowingly...gone into an agreement with the intention of never paying and lying about it month after month...is also a scammer.
Just an update, my entry was reinstated WITHOUT the reply from the agency/person. I had all the proof I needed and she hasn't been able to prove otherwise. I continue trying to get what I honestly earned.
I have learned an expensive lesson and I am now super careful about working with agencies. I've had some good experiences with agencies from India and I hate to throw them all together, I don't think that's fair. I do, however, do a lot more research now.
I also want to give ProZ a thumbs up for banning her and for listening to me and accepting the proof that I have. And, boy, do I have proof! I just wish they could help more with payment issues...
To be continued.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Linda Larsson (X)
Suécia
Local time: 07:40
sueco para inglês
CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO
It's heartbreaking to see the entries coming in continuously on this person/agency. She has been banned now for a while, but her dishonesty is still affecting honest translators.
I received some payment from her, probably only because I was putting her name/agency out on all the blacklists I could find and she wanted to stop me. She still owes me some, but not enough to fight about any more.
She should have been removed from ProZ a long, long time ago. I wonder what t... See more It's heartbreaking to see the entries coming in continuously on this person/agency. She has been banned now for a while, but her dishonesty is still affecting honest translators.
I received some payment from her, probably only because I was putting her name/agency out on all the blacklists I could find and she wanted to stop me. She still owes me some, but not enough to fight about any more.
She should have been removed from ProZ a long, long time ago. I wonder what the policy is for how many translator's have to be ripped off before anything happens.
One more thing that I have noticed. People remove their entries when they finally receive payment. I find that disheartening as it takes away the warning system for other translators. I know I have been asked if I have been paid and if and when I am, to change my entry.
We need to fight and not give in. For our own sakes and for our fellow freelancers!!! Keep those entries up, even if you are asked to change them, you can still leave a message to others. If the person/agency replies with lies, prove it to Proz and they must remove it. KEEP ALL PROOF of what's going on!!
/Linda ▲ Collapse
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