| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | NHS translation costs criticized (England)
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| | | Terribly sorry, but... | Feb 8, 2012 |
Neil Coffey wrote:
If you're looking for subtle political ways to encourage people to learn English or integrate more into society, then you might argue that that's not such a bad goal per se.
But I would suggest that denying people reliable communication over their health is a dangerous tool to use for that purpose.
I'm sure that the Daily Mail will be equally outraged when it transpires that a hospital was not made aware of a rape or child abuse case, or inadvertently gave a patient incorrect medication that caused a fatal drug interaction, due to poor communication.
...what do you suggest, then, to get large parts of the UK's own population learning their own language properly? I meet foreigners every day who speak impeccable English, be it with slight accents that indicate that they are not originally from the UK. Last week I spoke to somebody who runs a couple of businesses, and he told me that he preferred to employ foreigners (for jobs where communicational skills are fare more important than degrees) as they are politer and (in most cases) speak far more decent English than most of the British that would show up for the job (if any at all, in some cases!).
It is not up to hospitals to "force" people to learn English...there are other ways of doing that.....One doesn't play games with people's health. Just as I heard a doctor who worked for the NHS, a couple of weeks ago in an interview in which he categorically refused to report "illegals" or "supposedly illegals" when they show up at the hospital for medical help. He literally said that a doctor should treat patients instead of acting like a snitch. There are other people who are supposed to do that.
Once again: I would absolutely love to see people in other countries refusing to "communicate in English" (even if they are more than capable of doing so) when UK citizens show up in need of help. Let us see then if the same reasoning will still be upheld.
| | | | Alex Lago 
Spain
Local time: 18:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Not the case in Spain | Feb 8, 2012 |
Not that right now Spain can be considered a model to follow, but we do supposedly (that's what our "researchers" say) get a lot of people from other country's in Europe coming to Spain for medical treatment, apart from all the tourists that come on holiday, and I can tell you that there are no interpreter's in Spanish public hospitals, so you either speak Spanish or come to the doctor with someone who can.
| | | | Alex Lago
Spain
Local time: 18:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Download and read the actual report | Feb 8, 2012 |
Downloaded and read this.
This has to be the most biased and poorly prepared report I have read in ages, talk about reaching a conclusion and then writing the report to match your "findings".
No mention of amount of patients, no breakdown by language, no lingering on the fact that some of these hospitals are translating into 120 languages (which if you ask me is an outrageous amount) and cutting down languages would reduce costs, no mention of how services are provided, etc., etc.
Would be interested in getting the author and firing them that would save money being spent uselessly, should fire their boss to for not rejecting the report and having them do a proper one.
[Edited at 2012-02-08 18:02 GMT]
| | | | | That is a choice, but.... | Feb 8, 2012 |
Alex Lago wrote:
Not that right now Spain can be considered a model to follow, but we do supposedly (that's what our "researchers" say) get a lot of people from other country's in Europe coming to Spain for medical treatment, apart from all the tourists that come on holiday, and I can tell you that there are no interpreter's in Spanish public hospitals, so you either speak Spanish or come to the doctor with someone who can.
...as already mentioned: the degree of civilization of a country can be measured by the way it treats its minorities. I think it is admirable to try to give everybody who resides in your country the possibility to get medical help, despite of these people mastering the local language or not. Knowing the vast amounts of money that are spent on "other things", I think paying for translators or interpreters in a health system is more than justifiable, in any country!
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Gail Bond
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:49
Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...
| MT for the NHS | Feb 8, 2012 |
Oh dear... the local report on BBC Look North has just concluded by saying that apparently the local NHS are looking into using software that will translate the written word, to reduce translation costs. Good luck with that, then...
I do hasten to add that they didn't mention any intention of using machines for interpreting (yet)!
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:49
Hebrew to English
| Cuts, not abolition | Feb 8, 2012 |
SBL_UK wrote: Neil Coffey wrote:
If you're looking for subtle political ways to encourage people to learn English or integrate more into society, then you might argue that that's not such a bad goal per se.
But I would suggest that denying people reliable communication over their health is a dangerous tool to use for that purpose.
I'm sure that the Daily Mail will be equally outraged when it transpires that a hospital was not made aware of a rape or child abuse case, or inadvertently gave a patient incorrect medication that caused a fatal drug interaction, due to poor communication. ...what do you suggest, then, to get large parts of the UK's own population learning their own language properly? I meet foreigners every day who speak impeccable English, be it with slight accents that indicate that they are not originally from the UK. Last week I spoke to somebody who runs a couple of businesses, and he told me that he preferred to employ foreigners (for jobs where communicational skills are fare more important than degrees) as they are politer and (in most cases) speak far more decent English than most of the British that would show up for the job (if any at all, in some cases!). It is not up to hospitals to "force" people to learn English...there are other ways of doing that.....One doesn't play games with people's health. Just as I heard a doctor who worked for the NHS, a couple of weeks ago in an interview in which he categorically refused to report "illegals" or "supposedly illegals" when they show up at the hospital for medical help. He literally said that a doctor should treat patients instead of acting like a snitch. There are other people who are supposed to do that. Once again: I would absolutely love to see people in other countries refusing to "communicate in English" (even if they are more than capable of doing so) when UK citizens show up in need of help. Let us see then if the same reasoning will still be upheld.
In fairness, I don't think it is about abolishing translation and interpreting in the NHS in its entirety. I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting that (at least I hope not). The recession means that any way to cut costs will be exploited and an over-inflated translation bill is a prime target for slashing. I think if it's just a case of looking at a few leaflets/signs and asking ourselves "do these REALLY need to be translated" then that's quite different from a patient rolling into A&E with something life-threatening and being denied a translator/interpreter.
I also don't think it is about forcing anybody to learn English, not least because forcing immigrants to learn English is completely counter-productive. When I used to teach ESOL, the students who were forced to be there (at the time there was some government stipulation that said that in order to get certain benefits they had to attend ESOL courses) - were the least motivated and "difficult" students of all.
I'm also reminded of my earliest teacher training...one of the first things we learned was that in order for a person to learn (a) language there has to be a need for them to acquire it. If a situation is created whereby an immigrant doesn't need to speak English (in England) then it won't help the individual in their daily lives, integration or community relations. It's the same reason why so many English ex-pats never bother to learn the language of their adopted home(country)...because they never need to - they get by on English.
In my opinion both situations are equally undesirable, i.e. English ex-pats should learn the new language and immigrants to English should learn English (not based on some imperialistic 'everyone must speak English' attitude, but for the benefit of the immigrants themselves). When you live in a country and don't speak the language there's so much you miss out on.
Undeniably the main motivation for the cuts is economic, but if there's a subtle political consequence (intentional or otherwise) to the cuts which helps to motivate immigrants to learn English, then it's not necessarily a bad thing (so long as it doesn't get to the point of endangering people's health").
This is why I find it hard to not see some benefit to proposed cuts (not abolition) in NHS translation.
[Edited at 2012-02-08 19:43 GMT]
| | | | Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 11:49
Greek to English
+ ...
What about cutting out the middle man?
The NHS could call the translators directly, and save 50%
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