Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Deutsch term or phrase:
Trittbrettfahrer
Englisch translation:
hangers-on / opportunistic elements / peripheral elements
Added to glossary by
Ken Cox
Aug 21, 2007 14:12
16 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Deutsch term
Trittbrettfahrer
Deutsch > Englisch
Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaften
Sozialwissenschaften, Soziologie, Ethik usw.
This is out of personal interest, although I think it would still be classifed as "Pro". If the latter is not the case, feel free to downgrade; I'm likewise not sure about the specific field.
While researching for a job, I came across this Wikipedia article about the infamous 1992 anti-foreigner riots in Rostock:
"Während der Ausschreitungen konnten sich gewalttätige Rechtsextremisten und Trittbrettfahrer ..."
My first thought was "copy cat" (the language used in reference to the 1980s riots in my native Handsworth!), but that would be subsequent riots occuring at a different time or place.
Within this context a press report would probably just say "right-wing extremists and locals".
Basically it means "people who joined in" - but can anyone think of a specific term that would apply here?
All variants of English welcome!
TIA!
While researching for a job, I came across this Wikipedia article about the infamous 1992 anti-foreigner riots in Rostock:
"Während der Ausschreitungen konnten sich gewalttätige Rechtsextremisten und Trittbrettfahrer ..."
My first thought was "copy cat" (the language used in reference to the 1980s riots in my native Handsworth!), but that would be subsequent riots occuring at a different time or place.
Within this context a press report would probably just say "right-wing extremists and locals".
Basically it means "people who joined in" - but can anyone think of a specific term that would apply here?
All variants of English welcome!
TIA!
Proposed translations
(Englisch)
Change log
Aug 29, 2007 13:43: Ken Cox Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+4
6 Min.
Selected
hangers-on
one fairly colloquial option
seee e.g.
Hangers-on must be given short shrift
...
Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland officials, ahead of this year's Twelfth demonstrations, seek a curtailment of the movement of "hangers-on" and "blue bag brigade" drinkers and they are calling on the police to clamp down on these elements and keep them well away.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/editorial?articleid=3018215
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Note added at 40 mins (2007-08-21 14:53:24 GMT)
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in a rather formal context, you can also use 'peripheral patrticpants' or 'opportunistic participants' (or even 'peripheral elements', but that's fairly dicy IMO).
e.g.
MENU TITLE: Youth Gangs: Problem and Response Series: OJJDP ...
Gangs were not an essential component or a precipitant of urban riots or civil-rights-related disorders, but peripheral and opportunistic participants ...
www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/d00027.txt
The Youth Gang Problem: A Community Approach - Google Books Result
by Irving A. Spergel - 1995 - Social Science - 368 pages
... individual gang members were at times opportunistic participants (Knopf 1969; Skolnick 1969), as they were again in the riots of Los Angeles in 1992
From Findings to Theories: Movements, Perspectives and Stances in ...
(1) Defining the core and peripheral elements of the movement. ..... 1940s and 1950s, this perspective connects social movements to such things as riots, ...
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Note added at 43 mins (2007-08-21 14:56:08 GMT)
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missing URLs above:
books.google.com/books?isbn=0195092031...
www.crito.uci.edu/si/resources/sawyerTapia.pdf
seee e.g.
Hangers-on must be given short shrift
...
Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland officials, ahead of this year's Twelfth demonstrations, seek a curtailment of the movement of "hangers-on" and "blue bag brigade" drinkers and they are calling on the police to clamp down on these elements and keep them well away.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/editorial?articleid=3018215
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Note added at 40 mins (2007-08-21 14:53:24 GMT)
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in a rather formal context, you can also use 'peripheral patrticpants' or 'opportunistic participants' (or even 'peripheral elements', but that's fairly dicy IMO).
e.g.
MENU TITLE: Youth Gangs: Problem and Response Series: OJJDP ...
Gangs were not an essential component or a precipitant of urban riots or civil-rights-related disorders, but peripheral and opportunistic participants ...
www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/d00027.txt
The Youth Gang Problem: A Community Approach - Google Books Result
by Irving A. Spergel - 1995 - Social Science - 368 pages
... individual gang members were at times opportunistic participants (Knopf 1969; Skolnick 1969), as they were again in the riots of Los Angeles in 1992
From Findings to Theories: Movements, Perspectives and Stances in ...
(1) Defining the core and peripheral elements of the movement. ..... 1940s and 1950s, this perspective connects social movements to such things as riots, ...
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Note added at 43 mins (2007-08-21 14:56:08 GMT)
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missing URLs above:
books.google.com/books?isbn=0195092031...
www.crito.uci.edu/si/resources/sawyerTapia.pdf
Note from asker:
It's not the hangers-on but the Orange Lodge itself that IMO should be given short shrift. ;-) |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
jccantrell
: This is how I would phrase it in the USA.
2 Min.
|
agree |
Lori Dendy-Molz
: I think I'd go with something like "brutal opportunists"
2 Stunden
|
agree |
Andrew Morgan
: Im not 100% statisfied but I think this best conveys the meaning
18 Stunden
|
agree |
Paul Cohen
: Perhaps we could call them "opportunistic elements" - euphemistically referring to the people who jumped into the fray because it presented an opportunity to bash foreigners.
20 Stunden
|
In a reasonably formal context, 'opportunistic' is probably a good choice. It gets more tricky in an informal context, and there a paraphrase may be necessary to properly express the meaning of the German term.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "All three of your options are sound. Ta!"
31 Min.
those tagging along
those in it for the kicks
freeloaders is apparently the official translation - those just along for the ride works well in that sense (Jonathan's)
(phony) knock offs, another option...
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Note added at 36 mins (2007-08-21 14:49:35 GMT)
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"in it for the kicks" would even be a play on words, seeing how brutal the whole thing was....
freeloaders is apparently the official translation - those just along for the ride works well in that sense (Jonathan's)
(phony) knock offs, another option...
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Note added at 36 mins (2007-08-21 14:49:35 GMT)
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"in it for the kicks" would even be a play on words, seeing how brutal the whole thing was....
+2
7 Min.
bandwagoneers
as in "jumping/getting on the bandwagon"
Example:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-76003-p-3.htm...
"The Anti-American bandwagoneers that have found yet another reason to bitch about how bad, evil, fat and stupid we all are while talking about how they hate racism, predujices [sic!] and stereotyping."
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Note added at 9 mins (2007-08-21 14:21:39 GMT)
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right-wing extremists and their bandwagoneers
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Note added at 38 mins (2007-08-21 14:51:21 GMT)
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Not really purely political, I'd say (where do you draw the line anyway?) - see http://lawhawk.blogspot.com/search/label/anti Semitism?updat... - "So far, it seems that the curfews have kept the bandwagoneers off the streets, as well as any citizens that might oppose the hardcore, organized effort to force France into creating official autonomous no-go zones."
Example:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-76003-p-3.htm...
"The Anti-American bandwagoneers that have found yet another reason to bitch about how bad, evil, fat and stupid we all are while talking about how they hate racism, predujices [sic!] and stereotyping."
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Note added at 9 mins (2007-08-21 14:21:39 GMT)
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right-wing extremists and their bandwagoneers
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Note added at 38 mins (2007-08-21 14:51:21 GMT)
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Not really purely political, I'd say (where do you draw the line anyway?) - see http://lawhawk.blogspot.com/search/label/anti Semitism?updat... - "So far, it seems that the curfews have kept the bandwagoneers off the streets, as well as any citizens that might oppose the hardcore, organized effort to force France into creating official autonomous no-go zones."
Note from asker:
My only gripe with this is that the noun would be used (as in your example) in a political or financial context. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
BrigitteHilgner
: I was thinking of bandwagon, too - and must make a note of "bandwagoneers", a new word for me.
21 Min.
|
agree |
seehand
16 Stunden
|
neutral |
Andrew Morgan
: Ive never heard the term and Google has exactly 25 hits for it, so I suspect its just people being twee. I wouldnt use it.
18 Stunden
|
How did you search? Excluding a band named The Dears from the search (which comes up frequently in connection with "bandwagoneers"), the plural form yields over 700 hits (with many more sources for the singular).
|
9 Min.
and those just along for the ride
copy-cats
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would-bes
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Note added at 12 mins (2007-08-21 14:25:24 GMT)
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standers-by
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Note added at 16 mins (2007-08-21 14:28:47 GMT)
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sympathizers
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Note added at 27 mins (2007-08-21 14:39:47 GMT)
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wannabees
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Note added at 43 mins (2007-08-21 14:56:09 GMT)
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spontaneous sympathizers
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Note added at 11 mins (2007-08-21 14:24:10 GMT)
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would-bes
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Note added at 12 mins (2007-08-21 14:25:24 GMT)
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standers-by
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Note added at 16 mins (2007-08-21 14:28:47 GMT)
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sympathizers
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Note added at 27 mins (2007-08-21 14:39:47 GMT)
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wannabees
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Note added at 43 mins (2007-08-21 14:56:09 GMT)
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spontaneous sympathizers
8 Min.
fellow travellers
not very convinced but might as well throw it into the melting pot
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Note added at 47 mins (2007-08-21 15:00:23 GMT)
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assorted riff raff
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Note added at 47 mins (2007-08-21 15:00:23 GMT)
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assorted riff raff
Note from asker:
Perhaps in the case of New Age rioters (who throw paint, plants and pets)? |
1 Stunde
mob
Wie wäre es in diesem Kontext einfach mit "mob"? Der Begriff beschreibt ja eine spontan entstandene, gewalttätige Masse von Menschen. Bei Leo findet sich auch "zusammengerotteter Pöbelhaufen" - klingt doch ziemlich passend.
55 Min.
free rider
Just to complete the list.
In the strict sense of the word "Trittbrettfahrer" is a free rider.
Trittbrettfahrer: jemand, der an Unternehmungen anderer Anteil hat, davon zu profitieren versucht, ohne selbst etwas dafür zu tun (Duden. Deutsches Universalwörterbuch).
From the context I would go with something along the line of getting on the bandwagon as suggested by Steffen.
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-08-21 15:23:45 GMT)
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Response to Francis:
Well, of course. But in the mindset of a social scientist they do indeed gain from this situation. They are able to "enjoy" an activity without having to go through the trouble of having to "organize" the activity on their own and without running the risk of being made responsible for the activity either. seen from this angle, it is indeed a classical free rider situation.
In the strict sense of the word "Trittbrettfahrer" is a free rider.
Trittbrettfahrer: jemand, der an Unternehmungen anderer Anteil hat, davon zu profitieren versucht, ohne selbst etwas dafür zu tun (Duden. Deutsches Universalwörterbuch).
From the context I would go with something along the line of getting on the bandwagon as suggested by Steffen.
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-08-21 15:23:45 GMT)
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Response to Francis:
Well, of course. But in the mindset of a social scientist they do indeed gain from this situation. They are able to "enjoy" an activity without having to go through the trouble of having to "organize" the activity on their own and without running the risk of being made responsible for the activity either. seen from this angle, it is indeed a classical free rider situation.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Stephan. The problem with "free rider" or indeed "bandwagoneer" (the noun) is the implication of some sort of profit or gain for those involved. |
-1
2 Stunden
(their) auxiliaries
In the sense of individuals who have great sympathy/empathy, possibly a common purpose, with those who are the driving force but they cannot be strictly seen as being members thereof.
Hence the use of "their" - to show they belong to the aforementioned.
In the case of criminal activities, could they possibly be "accomplices"?
Hence the use of "their" - to show they belong to the aforementioned.
In the case of criminal activities, could they possibly be "accomplices"?
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Andrew Morgan
: The implication in the original is that the trouble was satrted by fanatics with a cuase and was expanded to incllude peopel who didnt really care why there was a ruck, they just wanted to be violent. The problem is these people with *no* common purpose
15 Stunden
|
Maybe, but I don`t think so. By the way, can you provide quality work without access to a Spellchecker?
|
+1
4 Stunden
German definition
Trittbrettfahrer in diesem Kontext fallen unter die Oberkategorie Mitläufer
Gute Definition in der Wiki
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitläufer
Trittbrettfahrer sind normalerweise freeloader, was aber in diesem Zusammenhang nicht wirklich passt, da das Motiv nicht unbedingt "absahnen ohne zu zahlen "ist.
Der Unterschied zwischen Mitläufer und Trittbrettfahrer liegt mMn HIER darin, dass letztere nicht nur “ohne wirkliche Überzeugung und in einer untergeordneten Rolle beteiligt sind“ (Zitat Wiki), sondern aus ihrem Mitlaufen einen gewissen Nutzen ziehen (die Publizität, die Action)- was aber ein Nebenprodukt, nicht die eigentliche Intention ist.
Der Trittbrettfahrer ist demnach ein Mitläufer mit einer eigenen Agenda, sozusagen eine Art fortgeschrittener Mitläufer :-)
Mir ist leider kein überzeugender englischer Begriff eingefallen, also stell ich das mal so in den Raum und lass die native speakers zu Worte kommen!
Gute Definition in der Wiki
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitläufer
Trittbrettfahrer sind normalerweise freeloader, was aber in diesem Zusammenhang nicht wirklich passt, da das Motiv nicht unbedingt "absahnen ohne zu zahlen "ist.
Der Unterschied zwischen Mitläufer und Trittbrettfahrer liegt mMn HIER darin, dass letztere nicht nur “ohne wirkliche Überzeugung und in einer untergeordneten Rolle beteiligt sind“ (Zitat Wiki), sondern aus ihrem Mitlaufen einen gewissen Nutzen ziehen (die Publizität, die Action)- was aber ein Nebenprodukt, nicht die eigentliche Intention ist.
Der Trittbrettfahrer ist demnach ein Mitläufer mit einer eigenen Agenda, sozusagen eine Art fortgeschrittener Mitläufer :-)
Mir ist leider kein überzeugender englischer Begriff eingefallen, also stell ich das mal so in den Raum und lass die native speakers zu Worte kommen!
Note from asker:
Thanks, Doc! "fortgeschrittener Mitläufer" ;-) |
5 Stunden
tag-along activist (s)
or maybe: (other) activists riding (on) their coattails
tag-alongs would be another choice but (IMO) a bit weak.
they are actively participating, but not really members of the core group. And they have some other ulterior motives. It's a welcome opportunity for those people to ride on the Neonazis' coattails.
http://www.opednews.com/kall antisemitism_among_progressives...
racists, neo-nazis, etc. who are not really anti war and more anti-anyone different than them. They're just riding the coattails of the movement to spread their poison.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2005/10...
But, the question arises, is Jacot de Boinod what the Germans call a Trittbrettfahrer - a person who profits by another's work (literally "a running-board rider") -
along for the campaign, action, etc., taking advantage of it, but with possibly ulterior motives
using this "platform" to really advance their own (a different) agenda:
http://www.financialtimes.de/politik/:Taliban Trittbrettfahr...
Experten vermuten, dass die Entführung stattdessen auf einen Stammeskonflikt mit kriminellem Hintergrund zurückgeht und die Rebellen die Geiselnahme für ihre Zwecke instrumentalisieren.
somebody who has stolen somebody else's idea for his own benefit/Trittbrettfahrer (linguadict.de)
http://www.wsu.edu/~michael3/ps101/literatures_interest_grou...
E. Hula interviewed 130 group representatives connected to the transportation, civil rights, or education, and neatly defined three types of coalition members: core members, players, and tag-alongs. They vary considerably depending on their long-and short-term goals. Core members seek a bill or a key element of legislation. Players are satisfied if they can alter a paragraph or two in a bill. Tag-alongs seek a photo opportunity for their own narrow goals. Hula finds the tag-alongs the most intriguing. They tend to support lobbying efforts, even though everyone recognizes that they will not be particularly active.
http://www.squareis.com/en/00001/news/00335/
pseudo-phishing
http://www.federationofstates.org/articals/ccfrp.htm
1. Some Confederates could also run for lesser offices in the Republican primary and some would perhaps win as tag-alongs with a major Confederate candidate.
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Note added at 15 hrs (2007-08-22 05:27:46 GMT)
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or:
tag-along rioters
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Note added at 15 hrs (2007-08-22 05:54:27 GMT)
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other rioters riding (on) their coattails
the thing is, they are troublemakers themselves, just using the event to be active. Their agenda could just be "to riot for (the) riot's sake."
Discussion
"Während der Ausschreitungen konnten sich gewalttätige Rechtsextremisten und Trittbrettfahrer immer wieder in eine Menge von zeitweise bis zu 3.000 schaulustigen, teilweise applaudierenden Anwohnern zurückziehen"
So the latter would be sympathisers - but the Trittbrettfahrer are those who ACTIVELY participate, seeking "their share of ther action".