Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
revendication en nature
English translation:
in-kind claim
French term
revendication en nature
La revendication en nature peut s’exercer dans les mêmes conditions sur les biens mobiliers incoporés dans un autre bien mobilier ….
From the Commercial Code of Morocco
Proposed translations
in-kind claim
Note the low confidence due to the scarcity of supporting references
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Yes it is bilingual but I think the translation is unreliable
5 days
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extended-lien claim in kind
I can't work out if Romalpa 'extended retention of title clauses' are used in the USA. So I'll leave that one for now.
Morocco: L'efficacité limitée de la revendication en nature des biens vendus sous clause de réserve de propriété ('subject to lien') dans le traitement des entreprises
The Practical Consequences of the Romalpa Case. 8 Few writers have presumed to publish suggested drafts of *extended retention of title* clauses.
http://cours-de-droit.net/actions-en-revendication-a121603280/
http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/finance-general/3423556-droit-réel-en-revendication.html
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SafeTex
19 hrs
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Thanks, Safetex. I had been inclined to enter 'extended lien' or 'retention of title' as in well-known UK insolvency cases, as that what it appears to boil down to,
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disagree |
Eliza Hall
: "sous clause de réserve de propriété" doesn't mean subject to lien. The EN translation is "subject to a reservation of title clause." It's not a lien at all but retention of legal ownership.
1 day 17 hrs
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Your US Am. understanding of a lien is different to what it is in the UK: it's an alternative label for retention of title https://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/legal-briefing/the-effective...
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Surely clause de réserve de propriété is a retention of title clause of some kind or another and what has the USA got to do with it anyway? Text is from Morocco
3 days 18 hrs
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The asker is in the USA, whilst lien is the UK commercial law term and insolvency shorthand for extended retention of title 'Essentially, a lien is a legal right to retain possession of goods against payment of a debt due to the lien holder.'
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claim for the recovery of movable property
FR micro-analyzes the distinctions so much that they even have different words for this type of action depending on whether the plaintiff's property rights have become incontestable due to the publication of the parties' contract--revendication en nature vs. restitution: https://www.actismj.fr/accueil/revendication-restitution
...but we just don't have these specific terms in EN. We could call both these actions restitution of property, which conveys the meaning that the property originally belonged to or was in the custody of the plaintiff. Although we could say "restitution" in EN, I chose "recovery" instead to avoid using the same word FR uses for one subset of this type of claims.
The "in-kind claim" suggestions others have made are reasonable, but are puzzling to EN speakers because we normally only say "in-kind" when we're talking about donations, compensation or gifts, not claims against someone. It's also a bit vague because there's no indication in the term "in-kind" that the property being sought actually belongs to the plaintiff--which is the basic premise of this type of claim in FR or FR-inspired law.
agree |
AllegroTrans
: So it's a claim that arises where there is a defect of registration of the contract to purchase/sell if I am not mistaken? Agree that "in kind" doesn't explain things
2 days 23 hrs
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I don't think it's about contractual defects--the link talks about it as a way to recover your property when the company that has the property is in insolvency proceedings. Perhaps their breach of contract could also give rise to such a claim.
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disagree |
Adrian MM.
: '...we just don't have these specific terms in EN.' That's a bold 'claim' as there is also such lien traceable into intermingled or comingled goods in US Am law as in E+W insolvency + on all fours with Morocco https://texaslawreview.org/tracing-equity/
10 days
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We have legal terms for claims made under liens, but that is not the type of claim at issue here.
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claim in kind
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Note added at 2 days 1 hr (2021-09-17 22:37:57 GMT)
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The conditions are from the rules expressed in articles of a Code of Commerce.
A definition:
'In a general sense 'the claim' or 'the demand' are words used to indicate a claim recognized in court which is disputed, objected or contested by a third party. Property can also be claimed, such as items of furniture or belongings, or the right to determined or fixed assets, lost or stolen. More specifically, the term is used to indicate or oppose claims which are made while following a legal route or a coarse of action, with obstacles presented very generally by trouble caused without justification. A furniture seller's claim action against a business company which would seek measures to safeguard property should follow the rules found in the articles of the Code of Commerce. The absence of a list of items or stock inventory does not impede claim actions or claims for compensation or damages, or repayment (restitution). Property sellers can take compensation action or make claims for damages, excepting cases in which goods or merchandise would have been re-sold genuinely. Those cases would be justified by presenting invoices and travel tickets as expenses. Provided that they are found, the goods or assets can be the object of a claim if they'd been replaced insecurely, or given to the debtor on an insecure or precarious basis.'
https://www.dictionnaire-juridique.com/definition/revendicat...
After reading the above, it looks like the claim 'in kind' or 'by nature' is either simply a real claim or one which is similar to another.
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Note added at 4 days (2021-09-20 06:41:53 GMT)
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'En générale la reclamation ou la demande sont des mots indicatifs comme sollicitude ou une reclamation dans une Cour. La reclamation est contestée ou disputée. Des biens actifs peuvent être demandés, tels comme des meubles ou des commodités ou des possessions, ou le droit des actifs déterminés, volés ou perdus. Plus spécifiquement, la reclamation indique ou elle s'oppose à des autres demandes d'un chemin juridique avec une marche à suivre ou un plan d'action avec des difficultés présentées généralement par les problèmes posés sans justice. Un vendeur des meubles présente un cas avec une intention de faire reclamer, en contre une entreprise qui cherche des mesures de sauvegarder les possessions, devrait suivre les règles trouvés dans l'article du Code de Commerce. La manque d'une liste de possessions ou des inventaires n'empêche pas les actions de reclamer ou des demandes de rémunération au cas des dommages, sauf des cas auxquels des commodités devraient être vendues ou revendues sans fraude. Ces cas-là se justifient avec des factures ou des billets de voyage comme attestation des dépenses. A' condition qu'ils se trouvent, les commodités ou les biens peuvent être le point central ou le sujet s'ils ont été remplacés sans sécurité, ou donnés au débiteur ...'
Il s'agit des conditions de mouvoir ou de transférer des marchandises, des possessions ou des commodités, avec une marche à suivre comme un plan d'action.
It's about the conditions of moving or transferring goods, assets or commodities, with a plan, a route to follow or a course of action.
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Note added at 4 days (2021-09-20 07:28:07 GMT)
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"Inventory is a detailed, itemized list, report, or record of things in ones possession, such as the belongings of a house or a shop, especially a periodic survey of the goods and materials in stock or in store."
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/inventory
(FR: L'inventaire est une liste détaillée des objets, un rapport en déclaration des objets ou un dossier des objets à la possession de quelqu'un, de sa maison ou des son magasin. C'est surtout une enquête ou un sondage des objets et des matériales en stock ou en magasin.)
neutral |
ormiston
: IN the same conditions' is English?!
18 hrs
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disagree |
AllegroTrans
: Nothing to do with property gains or stock inventories and your "definition" makes very little sense because you've translated it either word by word or by machine
3 days 17 hrs
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Actions to establish title (OR ownership)...to the (actual) movable property assets (themselves)
Presuming it still is, the translation must be worded according, in court rather than in "ordinary" legal language.
So, what does FHS Bridge have to say?
revendication > action to establish title (ownership); action in detinue
https://books.google.fr/books?id=rQAKtn-XjzIC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA...
biens mobiliers > movable property
https://books.google.fr/books?id=rQAKtn-XjzIC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA...
The "en nature" part, I think, you can leave out, but add "actual" or "themselves" as emphasis that the actions are brought for title to the movable property assets themselves and not to financial compensation in lieu thereof (even though title to financial compensation makes no sense as a concept).
I hope this makes sense. Lastly, you will have to re-order the items in your sentence a bit, but I'm sure you get the gist of that.
FHS Bridge's book really is very good.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2021-09-16 08:06:35 GMT)
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correction: accordingLY
Search using the following text to get to what is presumably the old version of the Code:
Loi n° 15-95 formant code du commerce - eGov Marochttp://www.egov.ma
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Note added at 10 days (2021-09-26 20:47:42 GMT) Post-grading
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In new light22:45 Click here to delete your post Click here to edit your post
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-contracts/8...
French term or phrase: une exécution en nature
English translation: specific performance
In this light, "revendication en nature" would be "claim for specific performance".
"Specific performance is an equitable relief granted by the Court to enforce contractual obligations between the parties. It is a remedy in performance as opposed to a claim sounding in damages for breach of contract where pecuniary compensation is granted as relief for failure to carry out the terms of the contract."
https://www.scconline.com/blog/post/2020/06/18/specific-perf...
I have no idea why this translation didn't come up in the initial answers or discussion.
Hi Conor, Thanks for your suggestion. Sorry for the delayed reply. I got the info you requested: Article 705 Peuvent également être revendiquées, si elles se retrouvent en nature au moment de l’ouverture de la procédure, les marchandises vendues avec une clause de réserve de propriété subordonnant le transfert de propriété au paiement intégral du prix. Cette clause, qui peut figurer dans un écrit régissant un ensemble d’opérations commerciales convenues entre les parties, doit avoir été convenue entre les parties dans un écrit établi, au plus tard, au moment de la livraison. Article 707 Dans tous les cas, il n’y a pas lieu à revendication si le preix et payé immédiatement. Le juge-commissaire peut, avec le consentement du créancier revendiquant, accorder un délai de règlement. Le paiement du prix et alors assimilé à celui d’une créance née régulièrement après le jugement d’ouverture. |
No particular titles or headings |
disagree |
Eliza Hall
: There's no need to establish title--a "clause de réserve de propriété" is a reservation of title clause. The action isn't about getting title but getting the actual property back (or in the case of fungible goods, getting equivalent goods).
1 day 8 hrs
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[Edit] Sorry, I had a big lapse there, I was the one talking about title! Text is about establishing (= proving) title (showing the judge paperwork, simply!), not about "getting" (curious word!) title. / Your own answer is nicely argued, but unconvincing.
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Steve Robbie
: You haven't given any reasoning to support Bridge's translation. You should. Bridge's word-list may be "really good" but you still have to show me some evidence that it's right... // Still doesn't trump a reasoned explanation. I'm with Eliza.
2 days 5 hrs
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[Edit] Many legal specialists here consider Mr Bridge to be pretty much infallible. [Edit] / That's fine. I believe that Eliza is a lawyer-linguist, so that should give her an edge over me, in fairness. Personally I think her interpretation is wrong.
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Discussion
Maybe we were all way off track?
"https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="claim for specific perfor...
French term or phrase: une exécution en nature
English translation: specific performance
In this light, "revendication en nature" would be "claim for specific performance".
"Specific performance is an equitable relief granted by the Court to enforce contractual obligations between the parties. It is a remedy in performance as opposed to a claim sounding in damages for breach of contract where pecuniary compensation is granted as relief for failure to carry out the terms of the contract."
https://www.scconline.com/blog/post/2020/06/18/specific-perf...
I have no idea why this translation didn't come up in the initial answers or discussion.
Often former colonies (I think Morocco was called a "Protectorate", technically) more or less copy French codes, or at least retain legislation left over from colonial times, but this doesn't seem to be the case here.
Peuvent également être revendiquées, si elles se retrouvent en nature au moment de l’ouverture de la procédure, les marchandises vendues avec une clause de réserve de propriété subordonnant le transfert de propriété au paiement intégral du prix. Cette clause, qui peut figurer dans un écrit régissant un ensemble d’opérations commerciales convenues entre les parties, doit avoir été convenue entre les parties dans un écrit établi, au plus tard, au moment de la livraison.
Article 707
Dans tous les cas, il n’y a pas lieu à revendication si le preix et payé immédiatement. Le juge-commissaire peut, avec le consentement du créancier revendiquant, accorder un délai de règlement. Le paiement du prix et alors assimilé à celui d’une créance née régulièrement après le jugement d’ouverture.
I'll have to come back to the question at a later time as I've got a big project on and it's late here in France (after 10 pm).
Steve, I've just seen your Discussion entry (I did not get a notification about it). I think you assumed that I had seen it, since you did not flag the fact that you had a copy of the updated Code.
Bridge's entry does not take different types of claims/actions into account.
Look at your peer comment again -- no mention of the updated text!
So, in my defence, I was not operating using the same information, because of a ProZ notification failure.
(For the record, I didn't get a notification about Eliza's entry either, but my Discussion notifications seem to be working again fine now.)
That all being said, I'm standing by my answer -- I don't talk about establishing title to a debt (but that does actually exist in the crazy world of finance -- what are bonds, after all?), I talk about establishing title to assets.
You can completely legally own something but still have to go through the motions (literally!) in court to get it back.
No particular titles or headings
"Revendication" is covered in articles 700-9. It is clearly about actions intended to get something back. For instance, if the object you owned has been sold, you can "revendiquer" the relevant portion of the sale price, or if you consigned a fungible physical asset (some fuel, for instance), you can "revendiquer" any asset identical to one you consigned.
Now, I am not a lawyer, but it would seem peculiar to me to talk about "establishing title" to a sum of cash or a fungible physical asset. Nor is that fundamentally what these actions seem to be about - they don't seem to be about disputes of title. The fact that actions en revendication and actions en restitution are (in France) fundamentally the same thing, also leads me to prefer recovery and restitution as translations - notwithstanding the fact that the article cited by Scott goes on to use "récupération" to refer to recovery in the strict physical sense.
"L’action en revendication :
Si vous êtes propriétaire d’un bien cédé avec une clause de réserve de propriété ou détenu par le débiteur au titre d'un contrat de location de dépôt ou de consignation-vente et que le contrat n’ a pas été publié, vous devez faire valoir votre droit de propriété en revendiquant votre bien dans le cadre d’une demande en revendication.
L’action en restitution :
C’est une demande que vous devez mettre en œuvre pour récupérer votre bien si votre droit de propriété n’est pas contestable en raison de la publication du contrat."
https://www.actismj.fr/accueil/revendication-restitution
In EN I'm not aware of any law where the publication or not of the contract makes a difference, so in EN these would both be the same type of action: suing someone who is in possession of property that you own, in order to recover that property (or, for fungible goods, to recover equivalent goods). We'd call that an action for restitution, or for the recovery of property.