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( système de câbles mobiles) **de type guirlande ou chenille**
en fluide

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

a toutes marges

English translation:

full margins / untrimmed

Added to glossary by French Foodie
Jul 20, 2005 20:33
18 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

a toutes marges

French to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting art exhibit
This comes up in a description of works in an art exhibit. I've googled this and find lots of references to "a toutes marges", especially dealing with old/rare books. I've also found similar pages that have "with all margins" but these all look suspiciously like translations from the French.

Can anyone confirm whether this is in fact the correct way of putting it?

Here is the context:
Outre les dessins inédits et les croquis préparatoires de tableaux connus, l’exposition présentera des travaux photographiques expérimentaux jamais montrés à ce jour : des épreuves déchirées pour les photomontages, des portraits fantomatiques ou ectoplasmiques, des tirages retouchés et un Chaman à toutes marges (un des trois exemplaires connus).

Many thanks in advance
Mara
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 with (all) margins intact
5 -1 full bleed print by/from Chaman
4 with complete borders / full borders intact
3 altogether marginal/living on the fringes (of society)

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Jul 23, 2005:
OK, thanks for that extra bit of info Vaughn. I'll have it removed from the glossary and stick with full margins.
David Vaughn Jul 22, 2005:
"Full-frame" is a different idea. It means that all the negative has been printed - that the composition was done "in the camera". Cartier-Bresson actually filed out his negative holders to make the hole bigger, creating the mentioned black line.
Non-ProZ.com Jul 22, 2005:
Thanks to all of your postings, I did some more research and came up with some interesting sites that I think work well in my context:

https://www.gordonsart.com/store/helpfiles/00photo/HELP_HOWE...
CONDITION
The overall condition of a photograph, its margins, image, and verso are described if they are noted by the auction house.
MARGINS
The standards employed by auction houses vary widely, from those that do not mention margins at all to those terms such as ***Full Margins***, Wide Margins, Small Margins, Trimmed Margins, Without Margins, or, the ambiguous Margins. The reader must conclude for himself what the relative difference is between these terms.

http://www.artnews.info/gallery.php?i=492&exi=399
Photographers such as Cartier-Bresson and others would print their photographs ***full frame***, that is ***together with the black margins of the negative***. An ***untrimmed*** photograph is a statement of faith in the authenticity of all photography. This is a deeply rooted tradition that speaks of pride in workmanship.

In this particular context, I think that either full-frame, full margins, or untrimmed would workd equally well.
Many thanks to all of you for your invaluable help.
Non-ProZ.com Jul 21, 2005:
Yes Vaughn, I think that must is why this particular Chaman is so special, one of the few photographs that Molinier did not tamper with in such a way. I've translated a whole biography on Molinier - interesting guy, eh! ;-)
What are your thoughts on the marges translation? - Although I hesitate to say untampered or not reworked, because he may have touched up the photo in other ways (and I don't have an image of this particular piece to verify).
David Vaughn Jul 21, 2005:
Moliner cut up his self-portraits, and also habitually "burned-in" (over-exposed) the borders of his photos, creating a circle of image inside black. It seems likely that we are talking about a normal photo here, not reworked.
Non-ProZ.com Jul 21, 2005:
A little more context for you: this is the work of one photographer - Pierre Molinier (I won't go into detail about his pictures, suffice it to say he was a pioneer in "self-eroticism" in the 1920s). He did a whole series of "Chaman" photographs.
David Vaughn Jul 20, 2005:
Is this the work of one photographer? Ray for example? Or a group?

Proposed translations

+2
42 mins
Selected

with (all) margins intact

This is how I read it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 51 mins (2005-07-20 21:24:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

With full margins.
This seems to be the proper term.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : From what I've been able to glean, it amounts to 'untrimmed'
12 mins
I'm all for "with full margins" at the moment (11,400 g-hits). Looking for proper documentation.
neutral Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : marge rognées..pas rognées..
21 mins
agree Michele Fauble
7 hrs
Thanks, Michele.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks very much."
25 mins

altogether marginal/living on the fringes (of society)

Hi Mara,

I don't think Chaman is an artist or a work of art.
It is about a painting of a "Chaman" who practices shamanism, and who would be considered marginal as they practise supernatural things.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 26 mins (2005-07-20 20:59:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

So there are three known examples of this painting of a \"Chaman\" (shaman in English)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2005-07-20 21:33:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mara,
I found this. Maybe it will help.

CHAMAN multimedia workshop dedicated to cultural heritage - [ Traduire cette page ]
... Via Livenza · LychnoServices · e-antiquity. Rome - The Hypogeum of Via Livenza.
Photography. Return to Via Livenza main page. © CHAMAN · Site Map · Contact.
www.chaman.ch/en/projects/vialivenza/photo_01.html - 3k - En cache - Pages similaires

CHAMAN multimedia workshop dedicated to cultural heritage - [ Traduire cette page ]
CHAMAN multimedia workshop. home · services · cultural projects · products ...
digital photography · 3D photography · video editing · animation ...
www.chaman.ch/en/services/imagia/imagia.html - 3k - En cache - Pages similaires
[ Autres résultats, domaine www.chaman.ch ]



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 19 mins (2005-07-20 22:52:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My final answer is: with all the outlines in place
Peer comment(s):
neutral Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : that is charming..and I mean it...
7 mins
neutral emiledgar : why would chaman be capitalized?
21 mins
Something went wrong...
-1
28 mins

full bleed print by/from Chaman

sounds like

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2005-07-20 21:02:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

when there are no white or other borders on a photograph

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2005-07-20 21:05:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

chaman is some photography atelier, isn\'t it?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 41 mins (2005-07-21 00:15:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note for Vaughn:
**The earliest photos of the 20th century are ***full-bleed***, meaning that they do not have a white border surrounding the image as is popular today. The white border appearing on later images was a result of the photographic paper being held in a special holder during enlargement, and this technology was not commonly used until about the mid 1910s.****


Please...
Peer comment(s):
agree emiledgar : Yes, no borders.
21 mins
disagree Tony M : I think in fact it is the OPPOSITE of this, Jane --- with the original borders intact, not trimmed off.
27 mins
full bleed does not mean the opposite of intact borders Dusty..you can have intact borders and still have full bleed..
neutral Nick Lingris : à pleine page
41 mins
disagree David Vaughn : "Full bleed" is NOT a photography term, but a printing term - the blood is the ink. "Full bleed" is not used in a catalog descriptions of photo. Esp not as you describe - in printing it refers to cutting the paper!
2 hrs
it's a kind of border on a print meaning no border..to print a photograph..I know what full-bleed means, I was a newsletter editor/production supervisor and magazine production person, FYI I didn't describe..someone else did..ta Vaughn...
Something went wrong...
14 hrs

with complete borders / full borders intact

Explanation in the notes section.

In photo, "border" is more common, though "margin" is also used.

Note on full bleed: the author Jane quotes uses this term, but it is not a normal photography term to refer to darkroom photos. The clear term for what she and he describe is "borderless". It is however probably the opposite of what is being described here. Jane's author is using the term metaphorically, perhaps educatedly, perhaps not. But it would be an error for a translator to copy his imagery. In French, borderless is "sans marge".


Today, with digital photography, "full bleed" can indeed be a correct term in photo, when the photos are printed on a computer printer, which does use inks, and so can bleed. Perhaps usage in refering to classical photos will change with time, but for the moment this is not the case.
Something went wrong...
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