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der ordentliche Rechtsweg ist ausgeschlossen
Umgebungsdynamik

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

überaus gütiges Geschick

English translation:

remarkably benevolent fate

Added to glossary by Gareth McMillan
Nov 21, 2004 13:47
19 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

überaus gütiges Geschick

German to English Marketing Poetry & Literature Letters
My question here is: are we talking about Geschick in the sense of luck, or skill?

Many thanks for any help/guidance esp. from German native speakers.


Text:
Ihre unermüdliche Arbeit u.Fleiss, sowie ein überaus gütiges Geschick hat Sie durch alle Färnisse der Kapitals Katastrophen hindurch nunmehr in eine hevorragende Stellung gebracht,.....
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 remarkably benevolent fate
4 +5 exceedingly good fortune
4 +3 as well as a good portion of luck (Divine intervention)
3 +2 extremely good fortune / providence
3 skill with which you are so liberally endowed

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Nov 21, 2004:
And Kim, thanks for your honesty.
Non-ProZ.com Nov 21, 2004:
This has been an education, thank you all- providence has smiled down on me and I'm not even religious!
Annika Neudecker Nov 21, 2004:
This is from Wordreference.com:
Geschick
(gehoben) (= Schicksal) fate
(= politische etc Entwicklung, Situation) fortune
ein g�tiges Geschick good fortune; providence
ein schlimmes/schweres/trauriges Geschick a sad fate
Annika Neudecker Nov 21, 2004:
Gareth, I agree that it could be construed as patronizing but that doesn't negate its meaning. "Geschick" (as in "g�tiges Geschick") means "Schicksal". It's an old expression and wouldn't be used nowadays. Today, "Geschick" generally means "skill".
Reuben Proctor Nov 21, 2004:
Gareth, "g�tig" never means good as in skilful, but always "benevolent", "well-meaning", etc. Take that as a given fact. Also, as Robert said, don't forget the ethos, especially nearly a century ago, when the idea of providence was much more prevalent.
Robert M Maier Nov 21, 2004:
But see it in a protestant work ethos: to reap lasting success from diligent work in this world is a sign that God looks down own you benevolently - if His providence is not on your side, you can try hard as you might without getting anywhere
Non-ProZ.com Nov 21, 2004:
Anika, how can you be so sure- skill kinda goes with the work and dilligence bit. One has to be careful here, IMO, that to say someone has come through because of hard work and diligence and "luck", might be construed as patronising (i.e. no skill or talent was involved).
Annika Neudecker Nov 21, 2004:
Gareth, "g�tiges Geschick" is "good fortune"...

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:9RaFti9u-nAJ:www.grabs....
Non-ProZ.com Nov 21, 2004:
Sorry folks- I should (meant to- forgot) to mention this is from a personal letter written in 1916, so it's fairly stiff and "proper" in its general style.
Kim Metzger Nov 21, 2004:
Now I think I'm all wet, Gareth.
Non-ProZ.com Nov 21, 2004:
Kim: "g�tig" is what threw me too. Maybe it had different connotations a century ago (gosh, how time flies!!!!). Hehe.
Non-ProZ.com Nov 21, 2004:
Sorry folks- I should (meant to- forgot) to mention this is from a personal letter written in 1916, so it's fairly stiff and "proper" in its general style.

Proposed translations

+1
3 hrs
German term (edited): �beraus g�tiges Geschick
Selected

remarkably benevolent fate

The etymology of 'Geschick' is related to 'Schicksal', fate. In the Germanic, and more specifically, the norse mythology, three women (" Nornen") personfy the fate (Urdir, Verdani, Skuld). Depending on their "inclination", they would bestow the individual person with kind (gütig)or not so kind gifts.
That's why the German language still uses this construction of gütig + Geschick.
I like 'benevolent' because the the giving of kind gift is preserved in the Latin root of this word.
HTH
Peer comment(s):
agree Annika Neudecker : Yep. Exactly!
44 mins
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I wish all Kudos experiences could be like this one.....unfortunately the protestant work ethic now has to kick in and someone has to be given points for their ethics. I love Johanna's answer cos it makes the historical sense abundantly clear and tells a wee story to boot."
+2
10 mins
German term (edited): �beraus g�tiges Geschick

extremely good fortune / providence


Duden/Oxford says: (a kindly) providence for gutes Geschick

But yes - Geschick in the sense of luck/fortune
Peer comment(s):
agree Kim Metzger
50 mins
agree Annika Neudecker
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+5
44 mins
German term (edited): �beraus g�tiges Geschick

exceedingly good fortune

gütig always means favourable, well-meaning, which can only be used in the sense of fate, not skill - this is also implied by the term "good fortune"

I would translate the passage as follows:

Your untiring work and diligence, as well as exceedingly good fortune has brought you [...] to an outstanding position,.....

By the way, Fährnisse with "h".
Peer comment(s):
agree Kim Metzger
17 mins
agree Annika Neudecker
55 mins
agree Allesklar : i like the 'exeedingly'
1 hr
agree Francis Lee (X) : Me too
1 hr
agree msherms
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
32 mins
German term (edited): �beraus g�tiges Geschick

skill with which you are so liberally endowed

Skill makes sense here if you can figure out what gütig means.
I'd say the problem is the word gütig, which in current German usage means friendly and wouldn't work with skill. If it's more in the direction of generous, then skill with which you are so generously, liberally endowed.

gütig in the sense of freigebig, großzügig = generous, liberal
http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/in...


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Note added at 46 mins (2004-11-21 14:33:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

albern – ahd. alawâri „ganz wahr, freundlich“ >> mhd. alwãre „alzu gütig, dumm“ >> nhd. albern „töricht, einfältig“

http://www.phil.muni.cz/german/mediaev/histsem/nofr-einf-HS....


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 1 min (2004-11-21 14:49:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It looks like I\'m on the wood way, here. All the references I\'ve found that would match luck, fortune rather than skill would apply to your written in 1916.
Peer comment(s):
agree Francis Lee (X) : The "skill" meaning makes more sense, I must say; perhaps something like "exceptional natural talents" ?
35 mins
disagree Robert M Maier : by & large, "Geschick" is "skill" if quantified or specified (großes G., manuelles G.), but "fortune" if qualified (glückliches, gnädiges, übles G.); you've been fairly up the garden path here... bring back some apples while you're there? :)
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+3
45 mins
German term (edited): �beraus g�tiges Geschick

as well as a good portion of luck (Divine intervention)

In the sentence, it is used to mean everything that is not included in work and perseverance. It depends very much on the text and your own style how it's translated - it could go as far afield as kindly Divine intervention, or be as prosaic as above, or a benevolent Providence, etc. The gütig simply means the Heaves smile upon the person.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 25 mins (2004-11-21 18:12:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry - the Heavens smile
May they smile on all of your own hard work as well!
Peer comment(s):
agree Kim Metzger
16 mins
agree Annika Neudecker
54 mins
agree Robert M Maier : I do like Reuben's "exceedingly", but the aspect of a vaguely personified providence (because it is gütig), yes that's there...
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
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