Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Oct 11, 2005 02:17
18 yrs ago
German term
United States
Literature & Scholarship
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: French to English, English, German to English
Bürgersöhne
German to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Lodge und Nash waren- wie Shakespeare- Handwerker- und Buergersoehne
"Buerger" seems to have so many translations that I'm not sure what to decide on here.
"Buerger" seems to have so many translations that I'm not sure what to decide on here.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +2 | s.u. |
Stephen Roche
|
| 4 +2 | burgher's sons |
Teresa Reinhardt
|
| 4 | sons of middle class parents (citizens) |
Kim Metzger
|
| 2 +1 | (from) an artisan background / well-to-do families |
Francis Lee (X)
|
Change log
Oct 11, 2005 02:51: Marcus Malabad changed "Term asked" from "Buergersoehne" to "B�rgersoehne"
Oct 11, 2005 02:53: Marcus Malabad changed "Term asked" from "B�rgersoehne" to "B�rgers�hne"
Proposed translations
+2
6 hrs
German term (edited):
B�rgers�hne
Selected
s.u.
Were the sons of prosperous craftsmen
I don't think the word 'Bürger' can be translated here in a way that fits both sixteenth and twentieth century contexts. Middle class is too modern and burgher too archaic.
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Note added at 7 hrs 38 mins (2005-10-11 09:55:32 GMT)
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In Shakespeare's day the idea of a 'middle' class between wealthy elite and working class had not yet emerged. The division of society in 16th Cenrury England was based more on a two-way division between commoner and nobility. The professional, artisan and merchant class was only emerging as a separate entity. At the earliest in the mid 18th century can we speak of a distinct 'middle class'.
I don't think the word 'Bürger' can be translated here in a way that fits both sixteenth and twentieth century contexts. Middle class is too modern and burgher too archaic.
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Note added at 7 hrs 38 mins (2005-10-11 09:55:32 GMT)
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In Shakespeare's day the idea of a 'middle' class between wealthy elite and working class had not yet emerged. The division of society in 16th Cenrury England was based more on a two-way division between commoner and nobility. The professional, artisan and merchant class was only emerging as a separate entity. At the earliest in the mid 18th century can we speak of a distinct 'middle class'.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks very much, your reference was very informative!"
4 mins
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Mexico
Native in English
Specializes in field
Mexico
Committed to Quality and Service
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
213
German term (edited):
Buergersoehne
sons of middle class parents (citizens)
I think that would work here.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Stephen Roche
: Not so sure Shakespeare can be described as middle class//Depends a lot on the register of the piece. For a more educated readership middle class may appear anachronistic
6 hrs
|
| agree |
Francis Lee (X)
: I'm sure he could be; http://www.42explore.com/shakspear.htm
6 hrs
|
| disagree |
lucasm (X)
: With Stephen--middle-class is definitely anachronistic.
12 hrs
|
+2
42 mins
Teresa Reinhardt
United States
United States
Native in German
&
English
United States
Known for top notch work, on time
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English, English to German, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
German term (edited):
B�rgers�hne
burgher's sons
A familair term for educated (academic) Americans
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Note added at 1 hr 57 mins (2005-10-11 04:14:55 GMT)
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or burghers' sons
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Note added at 1 hr 57 mins (2005-10-11 04:14:55 GMT)
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or burghers' sons
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Stephen Sadie
1 hr
|
|
Thanks, Stephen!
|
|
| agree |
Parzival
4 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Walter!
|
|
| neutral |
Stephen Roche
: For Shakespeare, yes, for Nash and Lodge (presumablly Ogden and David) no
5 hrs
|
| neutral |
Francis Lee (X)
: as Stephen says, perhaps a litle archaic; familiar only to those Americans, I think, who have studied European history - which, let's face it, isn't that high a proportion ;-)
6 hrs
|
+1
6 hrs
German term (edited):
B�rgers�hne
(from) an artisan background / well-to-do families
although simply "middle-class" would indeed suffice, I think
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Note added at 1 day 15 hrs 34 mins (2005-10-12 17:51:54 GMT) Post-grading
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Well, seems like the German is inaccurate anyway; should read e.g. Künstler- bzw. Bürgersöhne ...
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Note added at 1 day 15 hrs 34 mins (2005-10-12 17:51:54 GMT) Post-grading
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Well, seems like the German is inaccurate anyway; should read e.g. Künstler- bzw. Bürgersöhne ...
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