| Страниц в теме: [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13] > | translator blacklists Автор темы: Libero_Lang_Lab
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Libero_Lang_Lab 
Великобритания
Local time: 22:03
русский => английский
+ ...
Hi,
There have been ots of posts and threads over the years about the perennial problems relating to poor practices by translation agencies - bad rates, non-payment etc - and how to tackle these. ProZ, of course, has the Blueboard, which is an invaluable resource in this regard.
But, what about the converse problem? Translators who promote themselves as professionals and yet whose work is so poor that they have, effectively misled anyone who gives them work? Perhaps gi... See more Hi,
There have been ots of posts and threads over the years about the perennial problems relating to poor practices by translation agencies - bad rates, non-payment etc - and how to tackle these. ProZ, of course, has the Blueboard, which is an invaluable resource in this regard.
But, what about the converse problem? Translators who promote themselves as professionals and yet whose work is so poor that they have, effectively misled anyone who gives them work? Perhaps given that ProZ also promotes itself as a network for agencies now, there should be a reverse Blueboard on offer.
I ask because, as both a freelancer and the manager of a small agency, I have found myself facing both problems.
This will be controversial I am sure, as ProZ remains primarily a forum for translators... but as everyone knows, there are an awful lot of very bad translators out there who bring the profession into disrepute.
Interested in your thoughts. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
Великобритания
Local time: 22:03
Член ProZ.com c 2008
итальянский => английский
| bad translators | Nov 23, 2009 |
Dan Brennan wrote:
there are an awful lot of very bad translators out there who bring the profession into disrepute.
Dan, this has come up before.
Naturally all translators will say they're good, but of course not all are. As for bad translators bringing the profession into disrepute, I can't agree. Bad doctors don't bring the whole medical profession into disrepute. A bad airline pilot doesn't mean that all airline pilots are bad.
As a translator, my own experience is that the agencies themselves do a good job of identifying the genuinely skilled people - but I do think that's *your* job as an agency. It's a case of "caveat emptor", I'm afraid.
I used to get hot under the collar about the bad translators who (I thought) were stealing all the work and doing it cheaply. More recently I've learned that the best agencies will seek out the best translators and will pay a fair price for high-quality work.
This is a market where the cream rises to the top
[Edited at 2009-11-23 14:23 GMT]
| | | | | Different conditions | Nov 23, 2009 |
Dan Brennan wrote:
I ask because, as both a freelancer and the manager of a small agency, I have found myself facing both problems.
I know what you are talking about ... but consider this:
You can test a translator with a short translation of 300 words (paid or not) and get the results the same day, while you would usually have to wait 30 days or more to test whether an agency will duly pay.
| | | | | Put individuals in the pillory? No! | Nov 23, 2009 |
Translation agencies are companies and are as such part of public life in a way. Most translators offer their services under their own name or even if they have a company name, you are actually talking about the work of one individual person, not of a company as a whole. A shame record is hard enough to clear for a company, but next to impossible for an individual person (even for a carreer in a different field), since Google seems to forget next to nothing. Also, a blacklist against individual ... See more Translation agencies are companies and are as such part of public life in a way. Most translators offer their services under their own name or even if they have a company name, you are actually talking about the work of one individual person, not of a company as a whole. A shame record is hard enough to clear for a company, but next to impossible for an individual person (even for a carreer in a different field), since Google seems to forget next to nothing. Also, a blacklist against individual persons is much more prone to personal revenge actions. So from my side, it is a definite no-no.
By the way: most of the Blueboard issues are payment-related. In case of a vendor rating, this will rather be quality-related. Payment practices can be measured quite objectively (although you do run into issues here as well), whereas quality is treated differently by different people, inspite of all the existing standards.
As far as I remember, the mission of ProZ was "helping translators to do better business". All the facilities for agencies should still most of all be serving that mission. ▲ Collapse
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| Agree with Tom and Harry | Nov 23, 2009 |
The field must be tipped in favor of freelancers, because we are being asked to work on the promise of being paid in 30 days (or more).
As Harry points out, you can insist on a test translation. Other things the buyer or agency can do to protect themselves:
1.
Carefully examine the text in the profile and or website of the candidate. Is he or she a native speaker of the target language involved? If target language is used in profile/website, are there egregious er... See more The field must be tipped in favor of freelancers, because we are being asked to work on the promise of being paid in 30 days (or more).
As Harry points out, you can insist on a test translation. Other things the buyer or agency can do to protect themselves:
1.
Carefully examine the text in the profile and or website of the candidate. Is he or she a native speaker of the target language involved? If target language is used in profile/website, are there egregious errors? Does anything in this person's presentation regarding their qualifications give cause for concern?
2.
Look at the quality of the Kudoz contributions within the language pair involved.
3.
If a long project is involved, then insist on delivery of the first thousand words prior to continuation of further work. This gives you a last chance to back out if the work is not up to snuff. This can be written into the contract, in which you can make clear that no payment will be made for grossly substandard work. (If the work is poor but usable, then you can make provision for partial payment at your discretion.) Just be prepared to mark up the copy to substantiate the deficiencies, in order to avoid legal problems afterward.
As Tom says: caveat emptor.
[Edited at 2009-11-23 15:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yasutomo Kanazawa
Япония
Local time: 06:03
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => японский
+ ...
| Totally agree | Nov 23, 2009 |
Tom in London wrote: Dan Brennan wrote:
there are an awful lot of very bad translators out there who bring the profession into disrepute.
Dan, this has come up before. Naturally all translators will say they're good, but of course not all are. As for bad translators bringing the profession into disrepute, I can't agree. Bad doctors don't bring the whole medical profession into disrepute. A bad airline pilot doesn't mean that all airline pilots are bad. As a translator, my own experience is that the agencies themselves do a good job of identifying the genuinely skilled people - but I do think that's *your* job as an agency. It's a case of "caveat emptor", I'm afraid. I used to get hot under the collar about the bad translators who (I thought) were stealing all the work and doing it cheaply. More recently I've learned that the best agencies will seek out the best translators and will pay a fair price for high-quality work. This is a market where the cream rises to the top [Edited at 2009-11-23 14:23 GMT]
We're in the same boat, whether we're translators or agencies. Like Tom wrote, it's a case of "caveat emptor" for the agency to select a good translator, and the same could be said (I don't know if the same term would apply here), but it's the translator's responsibility to choose to work with a good agency or not. And as Harry wrote, it is difficult for us to distinguish between a good agency and a bad agency until you have worked for them at least once or twice, and evaluate them not only by payment practices, but follow-ups, support and other factors.
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But, what about the converse problem? Translators who promote themselves as professionals and yet whose work is so poor that they have, effectively misled anyone who gives them work? Perhaps given that ProZ also promotes itself as a network for agencies now, there should be a reverse Blueboard on offer.
That was part of the original thinking behind the WWA feature, unless I am much mistaken. It is indeed a partner to the Blueboard (which rates the LWA, only one letter difference!). Having been obliged to outsource(*) and had less than satisfactory results, I agree it is a issue. All other things being equal (i.e. assuming the system was used impartially and honestly) it's a good idea. But the forum went ape, and the possibility of posting negative feedback was kicked into touch.
(*) - The points raised about how agencies can and should find people are probably valid. Not so applicable when, e.g. as an individual freelancer, you've got a direct client who, for once, has just a couple of pages in the reverse direction, or wants a couple of languages as a one-off, and all you want is someone who can produce a decent translation and deliver when they say they will.
| | | | Libero_Lang_Lab
Великобритания
Local time: 22:03
русский => английский
+ ...
Автор темы
Thanks to all for the responses. I accept most of the arguments proposed. While I also agree that this is a business where 'the cream rises to the top', I do maintain that, as in most service professions, lack of professionalism by some tends to taint their colleagues in terms of the way the industry is perceived. Someone mentioned Canada and the level of regulation. I think more regulation internationally would be a fine thing. The barriers to entry in the translation business are far too low, ... See more Thanks to all for the responses. I accept most of the arguments proposed. While I also agree that this is a business where 'the cream rises to the top', I do maintain that, as in most service professions, lack of professionalism by some tends to taint their colleagues in terms of the way the industry is perceived. Someone mentioned Canada and the level of regulation. I think more regulation internationally would be a fine thing. The barriers to entry in the translation business are far too low, as are the standards deemed acceptable by many translators.
As an outsourcer I accept that I probably need to tighten up my screening procedures - and it is true that translation tests and references afford a level of protection that is less available outwith ProZ when it comes to due diligence on agencies.
I'd say that most of the time I get it right, but 3 or 4 times a year, I end up placing a job with a translator who falls way below acceptable standards, even though, on paper, they appear pretty solid.
The ProZ certification system is a step in the right direction, that's for sure.
[Edited at 2009-11-23 17:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| next time... | Nov 23, 2009 |
call me! But I have to warn you... I'm expensive! Jokes apart, maybe choosing someone who belongs to a professional association could be the first step in the right direction, although, even so, there are no guarantees... but at least you can complain to the association if you receive a bad service...
| | | | Libero_Lang_Lab
Великобритания
Local time: 22:03
русский => английский
+ ...
Автор темы | Bad medicine | Nov 23, 2009 |
Tom in London wrote:
Bad doctors don't bring the whole medical profession into disrepute. A bad airline pilot doesn't mean that all airline pilots are bad. [/quote]
Have to say, I disagree with that particular assertion, Tom: reports of bad doctors DO taint the medical profession, and they certainly throw up calls for tighter regulation, which are, in my view, totally valid.
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