Major Asian computer manufacturer insisting on grammatically incorrect Greek Thread poster: Spiros Doikas
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Spiros Doikas 
Local time: 23:57
Member (2002)
English to Greek
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I have had this problem for the last couple of years. I work for that computer manufacturer (one of the top 100 companies in the world according to Fortune Global 500) via a major MLV.
The situation with localizing their products was OK until they replaced all the terms and UI items with tags. What happens now is that they force the use of these terms, as they are listed in the glossary, irrespective of grammatical context so that "term consistency" is not affected.
Gr... See more I have had this problem for the last couple of years. I work for that computer manufacturer (one of the top 100 companies in the world according to Fortune Global 500) via a major MLV.
The situation with localizing their products was OK until they replaced all the terms and UI items with tags. What happens now is that they force the use of these terms, as they are listed in the glossary, irrespective of grammatical context so that "term consistency" is not affected.
Greek, like German for example, has a case system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_case) and adapts words such as verbs, nouns and adjectives according to case. I.e. if you say "I have a button" you use the word "κουμπί"; if you say "of a button" you use the word "κουμπιού". This variation does not affect "term consistency" but it makes sure you use the correct conventions of the language in question to produce correct grammar.
Examples of words and phrases from their manuals: "Recovery Media" in the sentence "Create your Recovery Media" was forced to "Δημιουργήστε Μέσων αποκατάστασης". "Μέσων αποκατάστασης" which is genitive (!) is the term as found in their glossary and they have not fixed that despite being informed about it. Also, capitalization is not needed in Greek for such terms and in such context.
Similarly: "Δεν παρέχονται Μέσων αποκατάστασης με τον υπολογιστή σας" instead of "Δεν παρέχονται μέσα αποκατάστασης με τον υπολογιστή σας".
Another example is "Μια εισαγωγική έκδοση του Εγχειρίδιο χρήσης υπάρχει στον υπολογιστή σας" (An introductory version of the User Guide is
available on your computer) where in Greek, a genitive is needed for "User Guide" in this context, and the correct would be "Μια εισαγωγική έκδοση του Εγχειριδίου χρήσης υπάρχει στον υπολογιστή σας".
The MLV has approached them a number of times about this issue but they were dismissive asking to treat those UI items as icons or screenshots, not words, and that we do not need not concern ourselves about the grammar for them. And the last line was to "just follow the translation we provided without any changes".
What do you think I should do about this matter? I am supposed to do post-layout linguistic proofreading (PLLP) on these texts and I fix the same errors all the time which are then discarded; in effect, it makes me feel like Sisyphus. I asked the MLV to get me in touch with a linguist from the Computer manufacturer localization department, but they did not go ahead with that.
[Edited at 2013-10-29 13:48 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-10-29 13:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alex Lago
Spain
Local time: 22:57
English to Spanish
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| Do what the client wants | Oct 29, 2013 |
You are a professional, you have done your part, you have warned the client repeatedly that what they want you to do is wrong, you have explained it to them and they have told you to go ahead and do what they want you to do and ignore the grammar.
The client is paying you to perform a service and they have specifically told you what they want you to do, so you should do it.
If a client insists on getting a bad translation after being repeatedly warned of a problem it is... See more You are a professional, you have done your part, you have warned the client repeatedly that what they want you to do is wrong, you have explained it to them and they have told you to go ahead and do what they want you to do and ignore the grammar.
The client is paying you to perform a service and they have specifically told you what they want you to do, so you should do it.
If a client insists on getting a bad translation after being repeatedly warned of a problem it is their decision to make after all they are the ones paying for it (and throwing their money away in my opinion but that is their choice to make).
Just make sure that when you deliver the translations you include a note reiterating your disagreement with their terminology policy. ▲ Collapse
| | | | achisholm
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:57
Italian to English
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| Previous translations and translators | Oct 29, 2013 |
I have had similar problems where the client has jobs done by non-native speakers.
They have accumulated a body of badly translated work and they think is is OK (they are convinced it is correct) and s they want more of the same.
I agree with the previous reply. Do what they want after you have warned the client.
On the other hand, if the document is not too large, send them your version also. The reason I say that is because if someone else picks up the do... See more I have had similar problems where the client has jobs done by non-native speakers.
They have accumulated a body of badly translated work and they think is is OK (they are convinced it is correct) and s they want more of the same.
I agree with the previous reply. Do what they want after you have warned the client.
On the other hand, if the document is not too large, send them your version also. The reason I say that is because if someone else picks up the document and asks who the hell translated it, the answer will be YOU. At least this way you have provided the correct version. ▲ Collapse
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Alex Lago wrote:
You are a professional, you have done your part, you have warned the client repeatedly that what they want you to do is wrong, you have explained it to them and they have told you to go ahead and do what they want you to do and ignore the grammar.
The client is paying you to perform a service and they have specifically told you what they want you to do, so you should do it.
If a client insists on getting a bad translation after being repeatedly warned of a problem it is their decision to make after all they are the ones paying for it (and throwing their money away in my opinion but that is their choice to make).
Just make sure that when you deliver the translations you include a note reiterating your disagreement with their terminology policy.
I fully agree, if you cannot afford losing the client. Don't forget to paste a disclaimer to every delivery e-mail!
If you can afford losing them, lose them! (It feels goooood!)
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 04:57
Chinese to English
| Drop them if you can | Oct 29, 2013 |
I've had similar issues. I nearly pulled my name off an article over changes made by an editor with poor English. And I've had several conversations with one of my direct clients where I've said, I'm sorry but I don't translate into Chinglish. I don't mean to be precious - I just literally don't speak that language. I can only translate into English.
With your situation, I don't think I could do the proofreading. How can you proofread to eliminate language errors, while at the same ... See more I've had similar issues. I nearly pulled my name off an article over changes made by an editor with poor English. And I've had several conversations with one of my direct clients where I've said, I'm sorry but I don't translate into Chinglish. I don't mean to be precious - I just literally don't speak that language. I can only translate into English.
With your situation, I don't think I could do the proofreading. How can you proofread to eliminate language errors, while at the same time maintaining or creating errors to fit the glossary?
But Alex is right. You do your duty as a linguist, and if someone else chooses to spoil your work, then that's their problem. Just as long as my name's not on it and I've been paid, it's not really a problem. ▲ Collapse
| | | | David Wright
Austria
Local time: 22:57
German to English
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computer instruction manuals were supposed to be in bad (English/Greek/German etc), Can't say I've read one that wasn't. I imagine there's a DIN standard for computer manuals laying down what aspects of grammar/Vocab/style must be ignored when drafting manuals..
| | | | | Spot on, David | Oct 31, 2013 |
A major Japanese IT component manufacturer that I have worked for in the past has a lengthy style guide. And yes, their manuals are written (translated, that is) into very dumbed-down English that almost sounds like it is written for someone in elementary school. The reason I was given was that many non-natives will read the translation, so it should be as simple as possible. I eventually came to realize that I just don't have it in me to write like that.
| | | | | One-size-fits-all approach to languages | Oct 31, 2013 |
In those global industries requiring mountains of texts translated in a billion languages, the idea is to standardise processes in order to cut costs, oblivious to language specifics such as grammar, capitalisation, word order, punctuation, alphabet, number, gender... Otherwise standardisation would not be possible and your blender, mp3 player or software program would be more expensive (and/or shareholders less wealthy).
We're talking about "production" by "resources" there, not "t... See more In those global industries requiring mountains of texts translated in a billion languages, the idea is to standardise processes in order to cut costs, oblivious to language specifics such as grammar, capitalisation, word order, punctuation, alphabet, number, gender... Otherwise standardisation would not be possible and your blender, mp3 player or software program would be more expensive (and/or shareholders less wealthy).
We're talking about "production" by "resources" there, not "translation" by "translators". And on a production line, processes can't be changed without consequences on the whole "end product".
In these highly codified projects, my approach is to notify the agency about any language issues due to processes in place, while complying with guidelines and instructions. This is the added value I bring, until machines replace me.
Fortunately for our future, there are other things to do as a translator than tightening bolts on a word production line.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
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