| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Getting started in the translation industry. Is a Masters worth it? Thread poster: Ellie Phillips
|
|---|
| Business skills | Jun 18, 2021 |
Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
With 0.012 cents, this is not a foot in the door, it's a door on the foot.
May I remind that this is a website for professional translators. At least those who can market themself as such…
I don't know about a degree in linguistics, but a little business acumen can go a long way.
[Edited at 2021-06-18 01:05 GMT]
That's not nice. Market conditions for new graduates are horrible at the moment and young people are really suffering because of it. It's not nice to see people being exploited like this and feeling they have to accept that to get established, but it's also not nice seeing established professionals adding insult to injury by having a go at them for doing so.
Having said that:
Ellie, as a freelance translator business skills are important and there is much, much more to marketing yourself successfully than sending out CVs to agencies. The ITI runs a Starting Work As a Freelance Translator course periodically which you might find a useful introduction to these subjects, but there are plenty of books and courses on the market both aimed at translators and a more general audience.
I also wonder whether taking what you call a 'dead-end job' for a while might not be better for your career in the long term than working at these exploitative rates. You can pick up a lot of valuable career skills in seemingly humble occupations and they can even turn out to be a foundation for a future specialism. Plus, you would have employment rights and be sure of earning at least the minimum wage.
Anyway, good luck to you, whatever you decide.
Rachel
| | | | Baran Keki 
Türkiye
Local time: 01:29
Member
English to Turkish
A Masters is not worth it if you're going to work for rates at or below 0.05 USD per word. In fact, if you're going to work for such rates you don't need to have an undergraduate degree either.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
With 1.2 cents, even a high school diploma is a big ask.
And, come to think of it, legal residency and work papers are also entirely out of the question, since paying any kind of tax on that would add insult to injury.
Baran Keki wrote:
A Masters is not worth it if you're going to work for rates at or below 0.05 USD per word. In fact, if you're going to work for such rates you don't need to have an undergraduate degree either.
| | | | Ellie Phillips
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:29
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
With 0.012 cents, this is not a foot in the door, it's a door on the foot.
May I remind that this is a website for professional translators. At least those who can market themself as such…
I don't know about a degree in linguistics, but a little business acumen can go a long way.
[Edited at 2021-06-18 01:05 GMT]
I am aware it is very low pay and basically a form of exploitation, but getting experience these days is very hard as a young person, no matter the field. We have to make compromises sometimes to get somewhere. For me, it is not necessarily about the money right now, it is about the invaluable experience.
Throughout the course of my degree, for a whole three years, I was searching endlessly for opportunities in translation, even as a volunteer with no pay whatsoever. I ended up nowhere. Hence, for me to come across this opportunity made me really content for a moment; I realize the pay is not ideal.
I came here asking for advice from 'professional translators', and I am fairly sure that there have been many beginners before me who have done the same thing. I would like to think that as a 'professional' you would at least have the capacity to understand this. I thought this community would be more welcoming owing to it being formed by working adults, but by looking at the whole thread it is evident this is not the case. I had no intention of starting 'debates' between people here, but it happened. I came here solely for advice.
| | |
|
|
|
Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
This really really isn't a case of established old farts bullying the new kid (that would be if we gave you dirty looks and grumbled about undercutting for charging 5-6 cents)
What that organization appears to be doing is some combination of:
1) Exploiting newbies by promising progressive rate increases... which probably never occur.
2) Exploiting grad students etc. who have some sort of work experience or internship requirement
3) Exploiting newcomers or COVID-ave... See more This really really isn't a case of established old farts bullying the new kid (that would be if we gave you dirty looks and grumbled about undercutting for charging 5-6 cents)
What that organization appears to be doing is some combination of:
1) Exploiting newbies by promising progressive rate increases... which probably never occur.
2) Exploiting grad students etc. who have some sort of work experience or internship requirement
3) Exploiting newcomers or COVID-averse shut-ins from poor countries
Btw, your assumption that jobs "for" big name brands is an indicator of respectability is typical but false.
For example, as a kid in the early 2000's, I worked on projects "for" the likes of Lipton, LG, and Shell with a pretty dodgy Russian marketing company.
The chain went:
Shell/Lipton/LG > market research ordered from big Western firm like Saatchi or Nielsen iirc > local field work subcontracted to those scoundrels > me, hired by said scoundrels > sometimes, OTHER people hired directly by me
Collecting from aforementioned scoundrels typically involved yelling profanity at the Director of the Moscow office 3-6 months later in a messenger app or getting drunk with him and shaming him in front of his employees.
Btw, I didn't take a cut from jobs I farmed out, because my own deal (which they ended up violating) was that I was their sole translations provider and that they just let me sort everything out. I simply hired backup when I lacked time or energy to solo it.
However, many people DO take a cut. And many times, the people they farm out to further farm it out at lower rates. Btw, they couldn't be trusted to pay for my guys on time, so I typically just paid first out of pocket and then went to collect. Obviously, not everybody will behave that way.
So next time you think you have a reliable employer (actually, client!) because they have, say, a Samsung project, please realize that this CAN be an authentic Samsung project but also easily simultaneously involve a 22 yo kid with Russian roubles in an envelope or a Western Union transaction purely based on personal trust. And any number of people and companies between you, said kid, and Samsung, most of them taking time and a cut, and some of them reluctant to pay at all.
[Edited at 2021-06-18 10:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Ellie Phillips wrote:
I came here asking for advice from 'professional translators', and I am fairly sure that there have been many beginners before me who have done the same thing. I would like to think that as a 'professional' you would at least have the capacity to understand this. I thought this community would be more welcoming owing to it being formed by working adults, but by looking at the whole thread it is evident this is not the case. I had no intention of starting 'debates' between people here, but it happened. I came here solely for advice.
Sorry you didn't get a better welcome Ellie. I think people sometimes forget they are dealing with an actual human being when they post on the internet, and end up saying things they would never say to someone's face.
| | | |
I apologize for what might have sounded as a snarky comment.
Best of luck in your translation endeavours
As for me, I'll take my advice and keep my own councel.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 01:29
Member
English to Turkish
| If I were a beginner | Jun 18, 2021 |
I'd start out as an in-house translator at an agency where there would be a number of translators working in my language pair in an office environment from whom I could get feedback, learn the ropes and eventually specialize in a field or two. This worked for me here in Turkey, of course I have no idea what an "in-house" position involves in other countries.
My mistake was to stay on that job for too long (due to complacency). If I'd had the wisdom then that I have now I wouldn't have wor... See more I'd start out as an in-house translator at an agency where there would be a number of translators working in my language pair in an office environment from whom I could get feedback, learn the ropes and eventually specialize in a field or two. This worked for me here in Turkey, of course I have no idea what an "in-house" position involves in other countries.
My mistake was to stay on that job for too long (due to complacency). If I'd had the wisdom then that I have now I wouldn't have worked there no more than 2 years. That's about how much time it takes for you to learn how to translate lease contracts, informed consents, MSDS, user manuals, bank statements etc. (i.e. your bread and butter). You can of course go to a medical school for 6 years and learn about cardiovascular diseases and specialize in that subject to become a 'medical translator' if your heart so desires (that's also an option).
I wouldn't work for free (TwB) or for 1.2 cents per word just to gain experience. An in-house position would provide you with a fixed salary and benefits (that's the case where I live) and, if you're lucky, good colleagues and long lasting friendships. I still miss the office environment with the guys, but not so much my arguments with the boss... ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
In my opinion, a master's degree is completely useless.
A lot of people before you have become translators after years of teaching English as a foreign language.
It's the best path for you and you can earn a decent salary as a teacher. Forget about translation. In my opinion translation rates
are now lower than those for teaching English as a foreign language. Translation rates are collapsing and it's just the beginning
[Modifié le 2021-06-18 17:37 GMT]
[Modifi... See more In my opinion, a master's degree is completely useless.
A lot of people before you have become translators after years of teaching English as a foreign language.
It's the best path for you and you can earn a decent salary as a teacher. Forget about translation. In my opinion translation rates
are now lower than those for teaching English as a foreign language. Translation rates are collapsing and it's just the beginning
[Modifié le 2021-06-18 17:37 GMT]
[Modifié le 2021-06-18 17:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Situation in Germany | Jun 18, 2021 |
I don't know if this is a cultural peculiarity, but in Germany, companies/agencies nearly always require their in-house translators to possess a Master's [or an academic diploma degree known as "Diplom Übersetzer", which is equivalent to a Master's] degree, at least that's the impression I have gotten by analyzing job vacancies and talking to an agency owner. This means a Bachelor's degree would not be sufficient in order to receive employment as a translator in Germany, for most cases. This pr... See more I don't know if this is a cultural peculiarity, but in Germany, companies/agencies nearly always require their in-house translators to possess a Master's [or an academic diploma degree known as "Diplom Übersetzer", which is equivalent to a Master's] degree, at least that's the impression I have gotten by analyzing job vacancies and talking to an agency owner. This means a Bachelor's degree would not be sufficient in order to receive employment as a translator in Germany, for most cases. This probably applies to freelancers as well, so one would essentially have to complete a Master's degree/programme here first before thinking about a career as a translator.
In contrast, the agency owner whom I spoke with told me a Bachelor's degree would suffice for an employment as a Translation Project Manager.
So, to sum it up, these are the requirements persistent in Germany:
Bachelor's degree/ vocational training -> jobs such as Translation Project Manager, Multilingual Administrative Assistant, Multilingual Customer Care Agent
Master's degree -> Translator, Interpreter, Terminologist, Technical Writer, some jobs at university as a lecturer, research associate
PhD -> academic jobs, professorship, research work
Germany in general is quite degree orientated/focused, so the situation can greatly differ in other countries.
[Bearbeitet am 2021-06-18 18:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ellie Phillips
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:29
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER | In-house work | Jun 18, 2021 |
Matthias_2000 wrote:
I don't know if this is a cultural peculiarity, but in Germany, companies/agencies nearly always require their in-house translators to possess a Master's [or an academic diploma degree known as "Diplom Übersetzer", which is equivalent to a Master's] degree, at least that's the impression I have gotten by analyzing job vacancies and talking to an agency owner. This means a Bachelor's degree would not be sufficient in order to receive employment as a translator in Germany, for most cases. This probably applies to freelancers as well, so one would essentially have to complete a Master's degree/programme here first before thinking about a career as a translator.
I think this is similar to the situation in the UK. Even getting an entry level job requires some form of experience or qualification most of the time... There are no translation agencies where I currently live actually which is part of my problem + the pandemic means most are closed and are working remotely anyway. There is almost no possibility of getting actual 'in-house' practical experience at the moment. I have no clue when people will be returning to office but I assume a lot will be out until at least September time, Covid permitting. There are a couple of agencies in the city over from me but at the moment with Covid it is inconvenient as travel links are weaker.
| | | | Ellie Phillips
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:29
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER | In-house work | Jun 18, 2021 |
Baran Keki wrote:
I'd start out as an in-house translator at an agency where there would be a number of translators working in my language pair in an office environment from whom I could get feedback, learn the ropes and eventually specialize in a field or two. This worked for me here in Turkey, of course I have no idea what an "in-house" position involves in other countries.
This does seem to be the best way forward. However, as you have said, I think it is more difficult in the UK because there are more regulations as to what actually constitutes an 'able' translator to work in a physical agency. Also, as I have mentioned in my previous post, the ongoing pandemic and the presence of Covid means a lot of them are closed at the moment anyway and are working remotely.
I think it is just a waiting game for now. In the meantime I will carry on looking for other relevant opportunities and see what happens. I am open to careers in other language-related fields for now, so hopefully soon I will find something. Covid has definitely had a detrimental impact on the job market and us graduates are having a hard time even finding a basic position in the world of work.
Thanks for your advice, it is always interesting to see how the stories of other people differ!
| | |
|
|
|
| Master degree | Jun 19, 2021 |
My opinion would be that a master degree is always welcomed, but not essential. I started out with only a bachelor degree, but it was past experiences that interested my clients. For a whole year, I'd been doing volunteer translations for the United Nations. They have a portal where you can volunteer as a translator and I helped a few associations, including one who made a recommandation for my services. If you're looking for a place to make your first experience, it would be a good start and yo... See more My opinion would be that a master degree is always welcomed, but not essential. I started out with only a bachelor degree, but it was past experiences that interested my clients. For a whole year, I'd been doing volunteer translations for the United Nations. They have a portal where you can volunteer as a translator and I helped a few associations, including one who made a recommandation for my services. If you're looking for a place to make your first experience, it would be a good start and you would help people on top of that.
From my experience, few clients will want unexperienced translators. In this regard, translation is the same as any other occupation. You have to go through this circle of not being considered because you don't have experience, therefore you can't make experience because you're not considered. If the UN does this, maybe non-profit organisations do it too, might be worth it to check them.
[Modifié le 2021-06-19 02:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 01:29
Member
English to Turkish
Ellie Phillips wrote:
This does seem to be the best way forward. However, as you have said, I think it is more difficult in the UK because there are more regulations as to what actually constitutes an 'able' translator to work in a physical agency. Also, as I have mentioned in my previous post, the ongoing pandemic and the presence of Covid means a lot of them are closed at the moment anyway and are working remotely.
What about seeking an in-house position in a country where your source language is spoken? I'm sure there must be agencies in Uruguay or Argentina that don't require a Masters degree. You may not earn a lot, but you'd get the experience you need, and by freelancing on the side you could live comfortably for some months there (and improve your Spanish).
This is, of course, supposing life went back to normal...
| | | | | To quote myself (August 2018) | Jun 19, 2021 |
"Anyone can become a translator and earn peanuts working for bottom-feeder agencies, which don't always pay up, if the forums on this site are to be believed but is this what you want your career to be all about?
Having long taught on MA courses for translators, I can assure you that our students have it far easier when it comes to getting work. They have the training instilled in them by lecturers, themselves professionals, the experience of the internships they are expected to com... See more "Anyone can become a translator and earn peanuts working for bottom-feeder agencies, which don't always pay up, if the forums on this site are to be believed but is this what you want your career to be all about?
Having long taught on MA courses for translators, I can assure you that our students have it far easier when it comes to getting work. They have the training instilled in them by lecturers, themselves professionals, the experience of the internships they are expected to complete, the support of networks they have developed during their studies, the backing of the alumni associations and, often, if they are good enough, access to salaried employment in international organisations.
In later years, when they have earned their stripes and wish to go freelance, they will have a pool of potential clients on tap, a reputation enabling them to command high rates and the possibility of avoiding working with agencies at all. Nobody to cream off part of the takings !
If they have good writing skills and a gift for communication, they can also extend their portfolio to other services related to translation (proof-reading, creating copy, even teaching the next generations...).
Having travelled this route and knowing how much I can and do charge my direct clients, why on earth recommend to a beginner to go in through the backdoor and struggle for a few cents a word?
Makes sense, doesn't it?"
I have not changed my mind in the last three years. If anything, the shape of the market today makes me even more convinced that today's putative translators need the support they can obtain by taking a good Master's degree course. Good courses tend to last two years but even one year can be helpful. These courses are designed not just to teach translating techniques, point out typical errors and how to avoid them. They also include tips on translation software, project management, how to conduct research, specialist knowledge in fields such as law or finance (examples), writing style in the target language, producing a CV, self-marketing, etc. etc.
The translation market is shrinking and, if you really want to make a go of the profession, can afford the time and the cost of the course, why not arm yourself with the best weapons before you join the fray? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Getting started in the translation industry. Is a Masters worth it? | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
