Just a fantasy? Thread poster: bergazy
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bergazy 
Croatia
Local time: 07:43
Croatian to Italian
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Dear Turkish colleagues,
momentaneously I'm writting an article about the Lumbee/Croatan tribe. I think that I found something unusual but to be 100% sure
I need your confirmation for the facts like this:
"The Cherokee term for themselves was "ani yun wiya" meaning "the principal people". The Ottoman term for "the
principal people" was - and still is in modern Turkish, "ana yogun" - pronounced identically since the Turkish "g' is
silent.
The old ... See more Dear Turkish colleagues,
momentaneously I'm writting an article about the Lumbee/Croatan tribe. I think that I found something unusual but to be 100% sure
I need your confirmation for the facts like this:
"The Cherokee term for themselves was "ani yun wiya" meaning "the principal people". The Ottoman term for "the
principal people" was - and still is in modern Turkish, "ana yogun" - pronounced identically since the Turkish "g' is
silent.
The old name for Kentucky was "Kan Tuck," meaning "dark and bloody ground" in the local "Indian" dialect. "Kan
tok" is Turkish for "full of blood."
The top tribal administrator for the Creek Indian was called a "mico." A "mico" held the same position on a sixteenth-
century Ottoman galley."
"
It is well documented that the late nineteenth-century Melungeons of east Tennessee and southwest Virginia called a
watch a "satz," variously spelled as "sotz." (see John Rice Irwin's Alex Stewart: Portrait of a Pioneer, 1985). The
Turkish word for a timepiece of any kind is a "saat"
The Turkish word for "Huge noise" is "Ne yaygara" - yea, pronounced identically to "Niagara."
http://www.underonesky.org/Kennedy_next.html
Are this ideas pure nonsense or can be taken into consideration as reliable?
I would be greatful for any information concerning abovementioned theories.
Marko ▲ Collapse
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Dear Marko,
This type of derivations or "ethymological creations" are in my opinion nonsense. I was for some time a member of a yahoo group which favored this type of, to put it most innocently, play on words, calling it anagramatizing. And this is a very much disputed subjects, where the main idea is asserted that anagramatizing has no valid scientically supports. I don't want to go into details since I don't know the subject well. But there are groups on yahoo where you can get mo... See more Dear Marko,
This type of derivations or "ethymological creations" are in my opinion nonsense. I was for some time a member of a yahoo group which favored this type of, to put it most innocently, play on words, calling it anagramatizing. And this is a very much disputed subjects, where the main idea is asserted that anagramatizing has no valid scientically supports. I don't want to go into details since I don't know the subject well. But there are groups on yahoo where you can get more info (such as bcn [the group favouring this type of language originating] and the turkology group which has a more scientific attitude.
Shortly my comments on the words you gave are as follows:
"The Cherokee term for themselves was "ani yun wiya" meaning "the principal people". The Ottoman term for "the
principal people" was - and still is in modern Turkish, "ana yogun" - pronounced identically since the Turkish "g' is
silent.
Ottoman and Turkish are very different,
"ana yogun" has no meaning for me. "principle people" I would translate into Turkish as "ana halk".
The old name for Kentucky was "Kan Tuck," meaning "dark and bloody ground" in the local "Indian" dialect. "Kan
tok" is Turkish for "full of blood."
"Kan dolu" is the Turkish equivalent.
The top tribal administrator for the Creek Indian was called a "mico." A "mico" held the same position on a sixteenth-
century Ottoman galley."
Mico is no administrator. My dictionary says "cabin boy, young deck-hand"
"
It is well documented that the late nineteenth-century Melungeons of east Tennessee and southwest Virginia called a
watch a "satz," variously spelled as "sotz." (see John Rice Irwin's Alex Stewart: Portrait of a Pioneer, 1985). The
Turkish word for a timepiece of any kind is a "saat"
"saat" means "watch/clock" or "hour" or "at 12 o'clock"
The Turkish word for "Huge noise" is "Ne yaygara" - yea, pronounced identically to "Niagara."
Now this is nonsense. "Ne yaygara" I would translate really as "what a nonsense". Huge noise is "gürültü".
Are this ideas pure nonsense or can be taken into consideration as reliable?
I would be greatful for any information concerning abovementioned theories.
So, all the meanings I have given used in today's modern Turkish or Turkey Turkish.
They may be true, but I doubt it very much.
To be sure check out the groups I mentioned.
Marko
Wishing you success in your article.
Sevinç ▲ Collapse
| | | | bergazy
Croatia
Local time: 07:43
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I'm just checking the sources | Dec 29, 2003 |
Dear friends
It is not my intention to upset, harm or offend anyone. I just wanted to find out if one of the information sources I stucked with is rubbish or not. According to your reactions, its value is scientifically dubious.So,actually, your judgement will be highly regarded.
Tesekkurler!
Marko
| | | | | total fantasy | Jan 4, 2005 |
Dear Bergazy
I wouldn't give any second thoughts whether these ideas are total fantasy or not because they are. As put out by Sevinç these ideas, not theories as they are not accepted and evidenced, are merely the products of anagrammatizing and minds with different agendas.
First of all the term "ana yogun" does not exist in modern Turkish and can't exist as well, the adjective phrases are formed adj+noun and never noun+adj. Hence, if such adjective phrases would have exist... See more Dear Bergazy
I wouldn't give any second thoughts whether these ideas are total fantasy or not because they are. As put out by Sevinç these ideas, not theories as they are not accepted and evidenced, are merely the products of anagrammatizing and minds with different agendas.
First of all the term "ana yogun" does not exist in modern Turkish and can't exist as well, the adjective phrases are formed adj+noun and never noun+adj. Hence, if such adjective phrases would have existed they would be yogun+ana, tok+kan and not vise versa.
Therefore we can't call these ideas facts and they can't used to
support any "theory". Such pseudo-theories have been put forward in different parts of the world by different people, all with the single goal to prove that their language is the "root language" and their civilization is the oldest. But it is amazing to see that such tailored, pre-WW2 ideas can still find advocates when all of them fail to refute that the opposite can be true.
These ideas can only be true for those who either don't know Turkish or who want to believe it. A little basic linguistic knowledge and common sense is enough to give such ideas the attention they deserve in forms of horse laughter.
Bergazy wrote: Dear Turkish colleagues, momentaneously I'm writting an article about the Lumbee/Croatan tribe. I think that I found something unusual but to be 100% sure I need your confirmation for the facts like this: "The Cherokee term for themselves was "ani yun wiya" meaning "the principal people". The Ottoman term for "the principal people" was - and still is in modern Turkish, "ana yogun" - pronounced identically since the Turkish "g' is silent. The old name for Kentucky was "Kan Tuck," meaning "dark and bloody ground" in the local "Indian" dialect. "Kan tok" is Turkish for "full of blood." The top tribal administrator for the Creek Indian was called a "mico." A "mico" held the same position on a sixteenth- century Ottoman galley." " It is well documented that the late nineteenth-century Melungeons of east Tennessee and southwest Virginia called a watch a "satz," variously spelled as "sotz." (see John Rice Irwin's Alex Stewart: Portrait of a Pioneer, 1985). The Turkish word for a timepiece of any kind is a "saat" The Turkish word for "Huge noise" is "Ne yaygara" - yea, pronounced identically to "Niagara." http://www.underonesky.org/Kennedy_next.html Are this ideas pure nonsense or can be taken into consideration as reliable? I would be greatful for any information concerning abovementioned theories. Marko ▲ Collapse
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| Fantasy May Come trough | Jan 6, 2005 |
Hi,
Although one may logically not be able to conclude on any connection within the provided list of similarities, called fantasy by a Proz.member, one can not and sould not disregard that any fantasy may come through. Many things right now were just a straight fantasy 50 years ago.
I remember high ranked academicians were blaming a man who was claiming to find a medicine against cancer, he was in Mugla if I dont mistake myself. Now that poor man who faced the harrasme... See more Hi,
Although one may logically not be able to conclude on any connection within the provided list of similarities, called fantasy by a Proz.member, one can not and sould not disregard that any fantasy may come through. Many things right now were just a straight fantasy 50 years ago.
I remember high ranked academicians were blaming a man who was claiming to find a medicine against cancer, he was in Mugla if I dont mistake myself. Now that poor man who faced the harrasment is about to come up with an FDA approved medicine in Texas.
So I would say "never say never" and add that there may be a connection but may currently not be uncovered.
Regards,
Nizamettin Yigit ▲ Collapse
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