PayPal Seller Protection Policy?! Thread poster: Taija Hyvönen
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Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 21:12
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
This just happened.
I received a small payment from a US client for whom I have done work before with no problems. PayPal made a "case" out of this payment, and wanted to "investigate" it - I have absolutely no idea of why. The reason they gave me is that they think I do not meet PayPal Seller Protection Policy requirements. They did not tell me what those requirements are, so I don't know whether that is true.
They wanted information on this transaction, not stating wh... See more This just happened.
I received a small payment from a US client for whom I have done work before with no problems. PayPal made a "case" out of this payment, and wanted to "investigate" it - I have absolutely no idea of why. The reason they gave me is that they think I do not meet PayPal Seller Protection Policy requirements. They did not tell me what those requirements are, so I don't know whether that is true.
They wanted information on this transaction, not stating what kind of clarification they would be happy with. I provided all the information I could without breaching client confidentiality.
They then thought it over and confiscated the said payment from my account!!
Naturally I filed a complaint, asking politely how I can help PayPal to resolve this matter. They responded saying I did not meet the Seller Protection Policy requirements and that's it. Still refusing to tell me what those requirements are and what their problem here is.
Now, I not only lost the sum they took. I of course I withdrew all the money left on my account to stop PP from draining it further and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for it to make it to my bank account, which may or may not happen. I also risk losing a good client - from whom I still have payments due! And I'll probably have to start turning down all US clients as there is no other reasonable way to get payments from them (if you know one, please do share).
I have no idea of why this is happening. I run an honest business, have not had a single complaint from any client or any authorities, have never missed a deadline and take care of my responsibilities. All other payment through PayPal have come through smoothly.
So what the...? Have you ever run into anything like this with PayPal? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What kind of account do you have with them? | Jul 28, 2009 |
Do you have a personal or premier or business account? How was the transaction sent? As a commercial transaction, or private?
Katalin
| | | | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 21:12
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I have a business account and verified status | Jul 28, 2009 |
I can't find anything on the transaction type, I suppose it is commercial as it is business to business...
I have not been contacted by the client, other than being informed the job was received on time. I did another job for them shortly after that. There was nothing special about the job, I can't think of what reason they could possibly have to cancel the payment. I have informed them now and will be interested to hear their reply.
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Natalie 
Poland
Local time: 20:12
Member (2002)
English to Russian
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MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER
Are absolutely sure that you really dealt with Paypal and not with some fraudster?
Natalia
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Natalie wrote:
Are absolutely sure that you really dealt with Paypal and not with some fraudster?
Natalia
Yes, that is called phishing.
When you received that email on the "investigation", did you click on the link provided and gave your password and personal data? If you did, you disclosed your information to a hacker or a phisher and that person took your money away.
I suggest you go into PayPal and verify the details of that transaction (the withdrawal).
I have worked with PP for several years and have never have any problems like this.
Good luck.
| | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 21:12
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Confirmation | Jul 28, 2009 |
I'm fairly sure it's legitimate, I always log on to my account through the PP main page if I get an email notice and all transactions and correspondence has been through the account, not by email.
Also, my client has confirmed that PP keeps doing this to their other vendors as well and recommended steering clear of PP is possible... the payment was reversed to them and they will send the sum back to me. I will do my best to take the advice and find another way to deal with US payme... See more I'm fairly sure it's legitimate, I always log on to my account through the PP main page if I get an email notice and all transactions and correspondence has been through the account, not by email.
Also, my client has confirmed that PP keeps doing this to their other vendors as well and recommended steering clear of PP is possible... the payment was reversed to them and they will send the sum back to me. I will do my best to take the advice and find another way to deal with US payments. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joan Berglund
United States
Local time: 14:12
Member (2008)
French to English
| I have had odd problems with Paypal | Jul 28, 2009 |
US clients can use Moneybookers. It is a little more hassle, since if there is a problem, you generally have to call the UK, Moneybookers is not that efficient dealing with things by email. But they are usually fine, and take a smaller cut than Paypal.
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| Could your client's Paypal account be hacked? Or their credit card? | Jul 28, 2009 |
Taija Salo wrote:
Also, my client has confirmed that PP keeps doing this to their other vendors as well and recommended steering clear of PP is possible... the payment was reversed to them and they will send the sum back to me.
This whole thing looks to me as if PayPal received a refund (reversal) request from your client. In that case, if you HAD Sellers Protection, they would not have reversed the money (at least not right away, I guess). But you did not have the protection, so they sent you a message stating: Sorry, you are not eligible for the protection, and they reversed the payment.
If your client sees this happening to their other vendors, too, isn't it possible that their payPal account is hacked and somebody is issuing reversal requests in their name, and perhaps capturing other information through the transaction to eventually get the money to themselves?
Or, is it possible that your client is not telling the truth, and they actually issued a reversal request?
Katalin
Edit:
One more idea:
Did your client use a credit card for the payment?
If their credit card is being investigated, for example if they had any unauthorized or suspicious charges, the credit card company may suspend all charges (for a while, until they done with their investigation) or deem ALL charges after the fraudulent charge "unauthorized" and PayPal would reverse the money (unless you are protected by the Seller's Protection Policy).
Perhaps you can ask your client about that, too.
Sorry, second edit:
I just read through the Seller Protection Policy on Paypal. It does not apply at all to Services or any intangible goods, so even if you had it, you would not be protected.
[Edited at 2009-07-28 17:23 GMT]
| | | | Kaspars Melkis
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:12
English to Latvian
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| maybe the client hasn't fully verified his account | Jul 28, 2009 |
It happened to me once when the client who was sending the money hadn't confirmed his account properly. It was strange that Paypal started investigation because I had received Paypal payments from this client before. But I guess that the fact that the client initiated this particular transaction while on business trip abroad was the reason that triggered Paypal's investigation. And at the end Paypal simply reversed it without explanation.
Seller's protection is not important if you ... See more It happened to me once when the client who was sending the money hadn't confirmed his account properly. It was strange that Paypal started investigation because I had received Paypal payments from this client before. But I guess that the fact that the client initiated this particular transaction while on business trip abroad was the reason that triggered Paypal's investigation. And at the end Paypal simply reversed it without explanation.
Seller's protection is not important if you trust your client. He will get the money refunded back into his account and you can negotiate another payment method. In my case the client later provided necessary verification to Paypal and then sent the Paypal payment again, this time successfully. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 21:12
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Good questions, Katalin. I can't say what the situation is at the client's end, however, PP made it clear I was the problem.
I understood that Moneybookers wasn't an option for US payments, but if it now is, well, great
As for the Seller Protection Policy, I finally got a list of demands from PP and one of them is that tangible goods must be sold for one to eligible. Well, then there is nothing I can do a... See more Good questions, Katalin. I can't say what the situation is at the client's end, however, PP made it clear I was the problem.
I understood that Moneybookers wasn't an option for US payments, but if it now is, well, great
As for the Seller Protection Policy, I finally got a list of demands from PP and one of them is that tangible goods must be sold for one to eligible. Well, then there is nothing I can do about that as I don't sell tangible goods - and nothing I can do to stop PP from randomly reversing payments in the future as well. I can't expect all clients to be as understanding and willing to go through the extra trouble of sending back reversed payments. How very frustrating since PP is popular. PP still hasn't given me any explanation as to just exactly what they didn't like about this payment, and I think I will leave it at that. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Payments from the US | Jul 30, 2009 |
Hi Taija,
Although they may not want to, US clients can make bank transfers to your account in Finland. There are rare times that I outsource, and I pay my subcontractors in this way. It's expensive - about $40 - so not worth it for small jobs, but would be for larger ones. The bank I use is Citibank, and I can even send an international payment from my business account through online banking. Of course, I can go into my branch, too.
So, if they have been telling you th... See more Hi Taija,
Although they may not want to, US clients can make bank transfers to your account in Finland. There are rare times that I outsource, and I pay my subcontractors in this way. It's expensive - about $40 - so not worth it for small jobs, but would be for larger ones. The bank I use is Citibank, and I can even send an international payment from my business account through online banking. Of course, I can go into my branch, too.
So, if they have been telling you this is not possible, it is. It's just costly.
HTH
Daina ▲ Collapse
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| Why did they reverse the money in the first place? | Jul 30, 2009 |
Taija Salo wrote:
Good questions, Katalin. I can't say what the situation is at the client's end, however, PP made it clear I was the problem.
What PP made clear is that you were the problem that stopped them to apply the Seller Protection Policy. That's all they made clear.
But they needed to check that policy only if there was a reason to reverse the payment. There are two reasons for that, as far as I am aware:
1. claim from the sender (such as goods not received or significantly different from what agreed)
2. unauthorized payment (this could come from the credit card company that the sender used)
nothing I can do to stop PP from randomly reversing payments in the future as well. ... PP still hasn't given me any explanation as to just exactly what they didn't like about this payment, and I think I will leave it at that.
I would not leave it at that, there must be an explanation, they should not "randomly" reverse payments.
I would ask very specifically what triggered the reversal in the first place. Did PP receive a claim from the sender, or an unauthorized payment claim from anybody?
I would also ask more questions from the client - after all, if this is happening to their other vendors, too (so they say), than they should be eager to resolve it, and make sure it does not happen again.
I would ask them if they received any communication from PP after they sent the payment? Such as some sort of confirmation that they did not respond to?
Did they use a credit card for the payment? If yes, was the number of the credit card changed recently? Is it possible that the payment hit the monthly limit or single transaction limit of the card? If they used a bank account for payment (called Instant payments in PP, I think), is it possible that their balance was temporarily too low when PP tried to pull the money from there?
Katalin
| | | | Ines Burrell
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:12
Member (2004)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| You cannot ask PP anything | Jul 30, 2009 |
That, Katalin, is the biggest problem. They will not answer questions they do not want to answer and there is nothing you can do about it. They are a law to themselves and can do to your paypal account anything they want without explaining anything. That is the main reason I decided to steer clear of them. You cannot complain about them anywhere, you cannot take them to court. Pitty though I learned my lesson the hard way.
Ines
| | | | Taija Hyvönen
Finland
Local time: 21:12
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | That is correct | Jul 31, 2009 |
Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:
What PP made clear is that you were the problem that stopped them to apply the Seller Protection Policy. That's all they made clear.
But they needed to check that policy only if there was a reason to reverse the payment. There are two reasons for that, as far as I am aware:
1. claim from the sender (such as goods not received or significantly different from what agreed)
2. unauthorized payment (this could come from the credit card company that the sender used)
A claim from the sender - I don't think my client would accept the translation, then make a claim without contacting me, then be willing to send the payment again. There are some very disorganized agencies, from whom that would be no surprise, but this one definitely isn't one of them.
As for an unauthorized payment - I have no idea why that would be. PP is not giving me any explanations, email exchange with them seems to be a waste of time as they are not giving up any information.
I would not leave it at that, there must be an explanation, they should not "randomly" reverse payments.
I would ask very specifically what triggered the reversal in the first place. Did PP receive a claim from the sender, or an unauthorized payment claim from anybody?
I used the word random, because from my point of view nothing set this payment apart from all the others. What I would like to know is what triggered the investigation.
Now this is what they first said:
"To protect you from problematic transactions, we sometimes request additional information about PayPal payments. We need more information about this transaction. Please log in to your PayPal account, click the "Resolution Center" tab, and provide more information. We recommend that you not ship the item until our investigation is complete. If you've already shipped the item, please log in and let us know where you shipped it. We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until we complete our investigation. Please fax proof of shipment or proof of refund."
Obviously I could not fax any such proof, which does not exist. I described the events as best I could, but obviously I could not attach confidential correspondence with the client.
They then concluded:
"We've concluded our investigation into the transaction detailed below. Because we determined that you did not meet the eligibility requirements for the PayPal Seller Protection Policy, you are being charged for this reversed transaction. We've returned the funds to the PayPal account holder, and your account will be debited for the amount of this transaction."
Not one word of WHY?? What then followed was my complaint, their reply which did not contain any more information, my reply asking for some kind of clarification, and their reply containing lots of words and still no explanation of any kind. I am wondering whether I should now keep trying to get some answers, but it feels a bit pointless. My client doesn't have problem with me and it looks like we will move to using Moneybookers.
Thank you for taking time to go over this, Katalin! Lots of questions still, but I will let my client handle their side of it, I don't feel like I can start asking them all the questions.
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